The High Cost of Scout Executives

[purcelce]

Ditto what Trevor and Narr said.

 

I'm one of the poor FOS presentor slobs, heck I have the dubious honor of heading up our District's Family FOS campaign.

 

As with most non profit groups, the big cheese makes some serious dooky dollars. Main thing is make sure they are earning their keep. If not let the Council board handle it, that is their job.

[Beavah]

Another way to look at it is that revenue increased by $450,000 and salary increased 105,000, less than 1/4 as much as revenue.

 

So all increase in revenue should go into SE salary?? Even though the council is losing money (decrease in fund balance) each year?? Nonsense.

 

SE salary should be tied to performance just like any other commission based executive position. Give the executive a relatively low base salary with a commission on revenue generated in excess of expenses.

 

I couldn't disagree more. That's a reasonable formula for a for-profit outfit. A NFP shouldn't be giving bonuses based on building up reserves. It should be giving bonuses for creative use of money to provide efficient, high-quality service. More service bang for the buck.

 

 

Baltimore Area Council does have a reputation of being one of the few good, service-and-program oriented councils, so maybe some of that's what's goin' on, eh? But best to keep on top of it. Those salaries and increases are pretty large. A school superintendent for a $5M revenues (small!) school district wouldn't clear 80K. For a small NFP professional association in that revenue range, those salaries would still be quite high. But of course, BSA would never let yeh hire a school superintendent or a top exec at another NFP.

 

A Scout is Thrifty. Give your donor $ wisely, to places with less overhead, or give only restricted $$ to specific program elements you support (just for Camp Jones).

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

I guess we are getting a bargain too. Our SE made around $143,000 in 2004 and we have 30,000 registered youth. That works out to $4.76 per youth. I will note that our current SE came to us in 2004 and the guy before him was making $10 to $12,000 more per year.

[SWScouter]

Ok I found it. Salaries were listed on an attachment. Guidestar has two form 990s for 2004 one had the complete attachment, the other didn't.

 

The SE for Grand Canyon council (one of the largest in the BSA) made 170K in 2003 and 180K in 2004, no data for 2005. For 2004, it listed 54,455 youth so the SE's salary is about $3.30 per youth.

 

SWScouter

[OldGreyEagle]

I am not sure we want to start paying Council Executives by the scout, as much as we all feel so confident in those registration numbers. And if you do, how confident would you be after 5 years of steadily rising numbers knowing the compensation of the head guy is tied to those numbers.

 

To make it big in scouting, one has to sacrifice a whole bunch. A DE doesnt start off very well and then the levels to rise thorugh with multiple transfers for self and family and then running an organization in which almost every member knows your an idiot, even when they may only have a faint notion of what you do.

 

If you want top talent, you have to be ready to pay top talent. Then of course you also have to expect results and have those results matter. If the job isnt done, then something needs to be done. Perhaps Council Boards need to be selected by other than the COuncil Exec or the duties of the SE better understood.

[Trevorum]

How much money goes to pay Council Scout Executives nationwide? Quick, take a guess! Go ahead, guess!

 

 

 

 

~300 councils x $100k/yr = $30 million. Each year. For SEs.

 

And that's just for the TOP execs. And it's not even counting the salaries of all the bigshots in Irving.

[Eamonn]

3.6 cents per second!!

Ea.

[Beavah]

If you want top talent, you have to be ready to pay top talent.

 

Yah, but yeh have to be allowed to hire top talent, eh? Right now, councils are limited to hirin' only from within the BSA ranks. So even if the local Red Cross exec (with an MBA and 20 years exp), your school superintendent (with a Ph.D. and 30 years exp), or the business manager of the local hospital (with an MBA, CPA, and 20 years exp) were available and willing, you wouldn't be allowed to hire them. Even though all of 'em run larger NFP organizations, and all of 'em have great local contacts and name recognition to build on, for donation $ especially.

 

So no point comparin' to general market (where SE salaries are still very high). Councils don't have access to the general market. Dat's also what causes the disruptions and hardship for guys movin' up the BSA ladder, 'cause they have to move to advance. The best ones stay in the area, and advance by changin' jobs, eh?

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Gee Bevah, I dont know. All the "good" DE's our rather small Disitrct have ever had moved on to other Council's after 24-30 months. The reason given? They have to move on to move up. The less "good" DE's are terminated and are no longer with the "organization", at times I feel we are the single "A" affiliate of the Northeast Region. Then again you may live in an area where the size of the council means the individual professional doesnt have to move each time they are promoted. In my Council, the pro's all talk about working in Columbus Ohio, Chicago and other far flung places. Where they go may have to do with how good they are and how big the COuncil is

[Aquila calva]

Google can be so much fun!

 

The current SE of Baltimore is Hugh Travis.

 

Semper points out that Mr. Travis salary in 2005 was $273,333. Wikipedia article says Hugh Travis is one of six finalists for Roy Williams job of Chief Scout Executive in Irvine.

 

Roy Williams salary was $552,378 (see article below). If Mr. Travis is chosen to replace Mr. Williams, he will see quite a large salary increase.

 

Its only money!

 

For further reading enjoyment, see.

 

From Wikipedia on Roy Williams

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Williams_(Scouting)

 

From The Chronicle of Philanthropy, Sept. 28, 2006

 

http://www.philanthropy.com/free/articles/v18/i24/24003901.htm

 

 

[de4bsa]

"My big dollars will go to the Troop. To the IRS, it's all the same."

 

Myth. Most individual units are not 501©3 entities. Even the ones that are probably don't meet the standards to be one, but some poor schlub who reviews these things saw "Boy Scouts" somewhere on the form and granted it.

 

Just last week in my Council we had this situation come up. A SM in my district convinced his co-workers to designate their United Way pledges to his troop. The allocations to his troop added up to half of what the United Way had designated to go to our Council. The UW director said they legally had to send half of our money to the troop b/c they are required to honor donor designations. My SE and I met with the UW director and asked if the UW bylaws said anything about being required to give to 501©3 organizations. When she replied "yes" then we assured her that the funds couldn't go to the troop. We then had the unpleasant task of informing the troop committee, (who insisted we meet in front of the boys) parents, and other leaders that they wouldn't be getting that money. They weren't happy but they also didn't have much to say when we informed them that they had broken two sets of bylaws (The BSA and United Way). Be careful of unit level giving.

[scoutldr]

Well, our CO is a 501c3. And if the troop is "owned" by the CO, and they own all troop equipment and funds, then in effect, it's a donation to the CO, right?

 

Besides, if I ever get audited (hasn't happened yet), it's between me and the IRS. I'll take the risk. Even if the deduction is denied, it won't kill me.

[Oak Tree]

Most COs are 501©3s. Whenever people want to donate to our units, we just have them donate to the CO and the CO directs the money to us. There are some companies that won't donate to a church, and for those we have them donate to council and then council directs the money to us.

 

Even though we do that process to avoid any questions, I think I'd agree with scoutldr that a donation to the troop is really a donation to the CO.

 

Oak Tree

[Beavah]

We then had the unpleasant task of informing the troop committee, (who insisted we meet in front of the boys) parents, and other leaders that they wouldn't be getting that money. They weren't happy but they also didn't have much to say when we informed them that they had broken two sets of bylaws (The BSA and United Way). Be careful of unit level giving.

 

Well ain't this just the typical example of cuttin' off noses to spite faces, eh?

 

I certainly hope that UW didn't give the money to the Council. That wouldn't be ethical or legal. Proper action is to return the money to the donors.

 

So by taking on this "unpleasant task", you lost both money for the scouting program and the goodwill of a number of donors - and therefore money and support for the scouting program long-term. O' course, anyone who wants to can give to the unit through the CO, or the unit can get a friendly attorney to file for 501©(3) status on their behalf, or can give "under the table", eh? But if I were approached with this problem, I'd suggest that an even better way would be to set up an independent community fund or work through the local community foundation to provide a mechanism for donating to benefit any BS/GS/Campfire or other unit in the area. That'd really change the donation dynamic.

 

That's the problem with playin' hardball. There's always a risk that someone has a bat.

 

Service. We're about service. And whenever any organization becomes destructive of those ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new organizations.... Good Citizenship lesson, eh?

 

[de4bsa]

There are a number of reasons why the troop shouldn't have done that w/ the United Way. First and foremost, it's against BSA policy. Actually, I'll stick a pin in that and come back to it.

 

The United Way has to dispense donor designations to the entities that are to receive it. It wouldn't take long for other units to find out that a local troop got a four figure check from the UW b/c a SM was slick enough to convince his co-workers to designate their UW gift that way. What that troop did could conceivably end up being a nightmare for the UW and, more importantly, the other agencies the UW funds. I've got 50 units in my district. If all of the units took that same approach then the UW basically would start raising money for scout units only. The Red Cross, Hospice, Homeless shelters, etc. would all have their allocations severely cut.

 

The other problem is the message it's teaching the boys. I thought part of the purpose of the scouting program is to teach boys self-reliance, independence, hard work, the value of a dollar, etc. Which kid values camp more? The kid who participated in popcorn sales, car washes, and pancake breakfasts or the kid whose SM convinced the biggest car dealership in town to write a big check to his troop.

 

Now, let's take the pin out and again be reminded it is against BSA policy. I have volunteers who constantly remind me what is and isn't BSA policy. I sometimes think they have every rule and statute memorized by heart. However, with many of my units the BSA policy of units only receiving funds through money earning ventures is ignored. So, if you're a volunteer and accepting donations for your unit then you are violating BSA policy. You can justify that anyway you want but it is what it is.