Something isn't working.

[Eamonn]

When I first became a SM, I was very young.

I needed a lot of help and I'm thankful to those who provided it.

One of these "Helper's was my SM.

Sadly he had left under a cloud.

Even more sad is the fact that we had a falling out, because I seen what he was doing as trying to run the Troop from a bar stool.

I think because of that when I have finished doing something I tend to walk away and allow the new person /people to do whatever they are going to do. If they need me or my help they can ask. I'm not that hard to find.

I do try and pass on all the "Stuff" (Records, materials and a closing report) to the person who will take over.

I try even harder to not ever say "I told you so." Or bad mouth the person that is filling my old job.

Our DE is a young fellow. I wish I could say that I like him, but I don't not like him? In many ways I feel he is just there. He has just finished his second year as a DE.

I feel bad that I didn't do a better job of training him during the year that he was DE and I was District Chair. We never had a close relationship. He was full of wind and ambition and didn't feel the need to let me know what was going on and I think I was down in the dumps because our old DE had gone.

He started working in November, the Field Director at that time moved on in January, the new FD came on board in February and was gone in May. Due to the financial crisis in the Council the FD position was never filled.

The SE, a nice enough fellow never seemed to take the time to work with the DE's, maybe because he was busy with the crisis. The SE moved this past July.

It seems to me that no one has ever really taken the time to show this poor fellow what he should or shouldn't be doing.

Just recently we got to spend some time together and share a few adult beverages.

He was feeling very down in the dumps and was talking about quitting.

It seems that he feels everything is coming undone. Units are folding, the District Volunteers and District Committee members are no longer doing their job. The District Chairman (not the person I had trained to take my place.) and him are not getting along. The new District Commissioner (Number 3 in two years) is an Ex-Den Leader who doesn't know very much and who would sooner spent time with the Pack.

The only new unit that has seen the light of day is the Ship.

I admit that my heart is going out to the poor Lad.

A lot of the problem seems to be the person who is the District Vice-Chairman.

This guy is everywhere and into everything. He really thinks a lot of himself, sadly while he is very much larger than life after a little while he tends to rub people up the wrong way. He seems to be the reason why the District Committee is in such a shambles.

As I sat listening to this poor DE, I really had to bite my lip and remember my rule of never saying "I told you so".

I also much as I felt for him and the District, knew in my heart that I just don't have the time and can't do anything to help.

Things at home are not that easy and I have made the Ship my new love.

The Ship has a strong Committee.

We have the DE who he replaced.

He had asked her to serve on a nominating committee, but then never contacted her. He had asked her to sit on a committee, but never informed her of when the meetings were.

We have two Ex-District Chairmen (not counting me.) Both are nice men but there is no way they would ever tolerate the stuff that the Vice Chair is doing and both are not the sort to ever suffer in silence. The DE had spoken to one of them and he had told him that he had made a big mistake.

This poor kid came to work for the Council right out of college. I forget what his degree is in, but the time he has spent really hasn't prepared him for anything. I'm unsure if he would even make it in a different Council?

I haven't looked at and I'm not going to look at the real membership numbers (Recharter reports) I do know from talking to people that things are not good.

We have a new SE starting in November. I would like to think that he might sort things out, but I fear the on going financial problems will take up most of his time.

I don't think the Council can afford to fill the vacant FD position.

"Help other people at all times" I wish that I could, but I sure as heck don't want anyone thinking I'm doing stuff from a barstool.

I tried to tell the DE to hang in there and that maybe things would get better with the new SE coming. I said if he wanted to talk I was here and seem to be here a lot!!

I hate to see the District that I worked so hard to build up fall apart! I keep telling myself that it's "Peaks and Valleys" I just wish I could convince myself that it's true.

Eamonn

 

[scoutldr]

Interesting comparison in the same geographic area:

 

Boy Scout Council:

Total revenues: $2.3 million

SE compensation: $112,000

Asst SE compensation: $58,000

 

Girl Scout Council:

Total revenue: $6+ million

Director compensation: $51,000

Asst Director: none listed (only list if >$50K)

 

Source: www.Guidestar.com IRS Form 990

 

HMMMM. Cookies vs popcorn? The decision is becoming easier.

 

Something isn't working? Maybe there's a clue here somewhere.

(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[Eamonn]

I wasn't trying to dwell on the finances.

I kinda have my own untested, unproved theory.

It goes some thing like this.

Everything Starts with program.

A good well balanced program will solve the membership problem.

More membership will solve the financial problems. More kids means more popcorn sellers!! More people willing to donate to FOS and a better more visible presence in the local community. (These kids have Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles and family friends who do at times talk to each other.)

Program starts with adults who are willing to deliver the program.

Somehow? Maybe because of changing times? We don't seem able to attract the Leaders who used to be in for life and have the same passion as the old timers that I still see trying to deliver the program to a group of kids who are into a lot of things these old timers don't understand and refuse to understand.

Many of the people I now see joining seem to only be worried about their son and the main focus seems to be on advancement with the goal of reaching Eagle rank ASAP and then moving on. Even more sad it that while these adults do bring what skills and talents they have to Scouting, they never really take the time to really understand how things are supposed to work. Troop meetings become very much like School work with Merit Badge classes and very little fun and no adventure the biggest challenge the Scouts have is staying awake, but even if they fall asleep it makes no never mind they will be rewarded for sitting through the class with the mighty Merit Badge, which is more about endurance than any merit.

Eamonn.

[commandopro]

scoutldr

 

Could you please post which councils you are comparing? I would like to view the 990s and see things for my own eyes. Rarely does a Girl Scout Council covering the same geographic area as a Boy Scout Council have anywhere near the same budget. But I'm sure there are exceptions.

 

Also, when comparing salaries, be aware that a Girl Scout Council can hire any person off the street to be their Executive Director.A Scout Executive must usually have at least ten years of progressive non-profit managment experience.

[Fuzzy Bear]

For the years of experience that I have in Scouting, I will go with (effective) program every time. It is people serving up fun for people. Money, more people and success will follow close behind. It is the role of the District Leaders to make sure that recognition follows each event. It is the role of the District Leaders to make sure that a motivated individual is chosen for each event. It is the role of the D Leaders to make sure that the individual knows how an event is put together and how the funding is set up. It is the role of the D Leaders to make sure that plenty of help is found for each event and that the individual leader is backed with finding resources. Each event should be closely evaluated and a report written for future event Chairs on the Hows of those kinds of events. The DE needs to be in contact with the individual as well as a mentor to give emotional support and guidance. By the end evaluation a new Chair and core group should be identified for the following year.

 

As far as the DEs evaluation of his service to your district, he has shown to be a failure. He can decide if he wishes to change things or to go on to greener pastures. He was either a Scout without adult Scout experience or an adult without any Scouting experience. His decision has to do with his knowledge of Scout Spirit. It is the depth of his understanding of SS that will lead him into this kind of business. It is not based on duty/job but on being motivated by knowing where Scouting will lead others and himself. FB

 

[scoutldr]

Commandopro - I see by your posts that you are a professional Scouter. Suffice it to say that the councils I cited both serve the area in which I live, although the GS council covers a larger area (equal to two BS councils, more or less). My intent in posting the data was to show that salaries are apparently widely divergent between the two programs, as stated on the 990's, which are public information. I assume that the difference in total revenues stated is due, in part to the larger geographic area of the GS council and also assuming that cookie revenue is MUCH larger than popcorn revenue (gross income). If there is information that I'm not privy to that would render the comparison unfair, I apologize and am willing to be educated.

 

I also see on the GSUSA web site that they are undertaking a MAJOR national realignment of progam and council coverage, cutting the number of councils (and presumably, overhead expense) by about 2/3. Interesting reading. The gist of the philosophy is "the past is in the past, what do we need to do for today and the future to ensure relevance and survival of the program?"

[CNYScouter]

Eamonn-

 

I have to say that I am seeing the exact same thing here.

 

Many of the people I now see joining seem to only be worried about their son and the main focus seems to be on advancement with the goal of reaching Eagle rank ASAP and then moving on. Even more sad it that while these adults do bring what skills and talents they have to Scouting, they never really take the time to really understand how things are supposed to work.

 

I have to add that when someone comes along and wants to deliver a good Scout program, these people dont want it. I was in a unit that didnt do fundraising, service projects or attend district events because it took time away from doing advancement.

 

I one thing I cant understand about these units is that they pick and choose what parts of the program to follow, have adults do everything then sit back scratching their heads wondering why they cant keep older scouts or why the Scouts arent learning any leadership skills.

 

One piece of advice I see that keeps popping is that we should focus on our unit to delivery the best Scouting program that we can.

 

Many of these units are fully convinced that they are running a great Scout program.

 

I talked with one Adult who told me that his Troop had a great program.

So I asked him about it.

They 65 Scouts and had 29 Eagles in the last 4 years.

I asked him with 65 scouts how many patrols do you have?

None,. We dont use patrols

What are your meetings like?

We really focus on advancement and do MBs at every meeting and then play Dodgeball

With so many Eagles, you must have a really good older Scout program

Most of our Scouts make Eagle by 14 and then leave, so we really dont have an older Scout program.

 

I had another Adult tell that His Troop planned a great Scout program, its just that the Scouts didnt want to participate

 

I just ran into the CC for my sons troop.

He just came up from the Pack last March and was made CC.

He asked how come my son hadnt been to troop meeting.

 

I told him that he was bored and the Troop offered nothing for him as an older Scout.

He went on to say that he didnt understand this as the Troop offered a great program.

 

I talked with this person in the past.

He wasnt a Scout as a youth.

He moved up from the Pack with the same CO as the troop and never checked out any other Troops.

He had taken all the basic training but had never been to Roundtable, PowWow or Scouting University.

As a Cub or Scout Leader he has never attended a District or Council event.

This Troop last year lost almost 1/3 (my son now makes 9 out of 29) of its members, most of them older scouts.

They are now doing the same exact camping trips for the 3rd year in a row. I dont know why they think if only 5 kids went on the trip the last 2 years they are going to get a better turnout this year.

 

I am not sure how he knows if the Troop has a great program or not with nothing else to compare it to.

 

Definitely Something isn't working for many units out there.

And I am not sure what the answer is.

(This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

[greenSM]

When I stumbled on these forums I often thought EaMonn's constant mantra of "follow the program" was a little oversimplified.

As it turned out the problems I faced as a SM and now as a Cub CM were frequently the refusal of, well, pretty much everyone, to follow that same program. As has been spelled out here on this thread, not following the program begets bad results.

As I said on a different thread it is sad and discouraging to see the length and breadth of the problems caused by people simply not following the rules and the program.

 

P.S: The paid staff for the GSUSA councils are as political and incompetent as the DEs and other "professional Scouters" of the BSA. My wife, a troop leader, has held three troop organizational meetings while her $50K+ director cannot even tell her where or how many troops there are in our zip code. Above the troop level it's just bureaucracy.

[Eamonn]

"A Scout Executive must usually have at least ten years of progressive non-profit management experience."

 

I'm a little unsure what "progressive non-profit management" really means?

It seems to me that most Scout Execs. are totally unprepared and untrained for the job.

The qualifications to be a professional Scouter are a degree. Any degree will do!

After several years of working at the District level with volunteers and maybe working as a Field Director. He or She moves into the big office. The job now becomes a real management job, no longer just working with volunteers (Yes still working for volunteers!!) Trying to come up with budgets that will work and manage big sums of money. A few weeks training and the PDL training does little to help.

 

We at some stage need to take a long hard look at what the real costs are.

I don't want to support LFL.

I'm sure that the program does some good.

But it's not the program that I'm in.

I'm sure that I could name a lot of youth programs that do good, but I don't support them either.To me Scouting starts and ends with the Scout Law and Oath, LFL programs don't use the Oath and Law. So I don't want to support their programs.

I sick and tired of the "It costs $125.00 a year to keep a Scout in the program"

This while maybe not a lie? Is a falsehood.

LFL programs in most Councils account for about half the members. The cost per member of a child in LFL is not that much. Certainly not $125.00 a year!!

So the big question has to be "What is the cost of providing the service to a traditional member?" I would guess it's over $200.00 per Scout per year.

The time has come for us to look at this cost and look to see :

Can we afford it?

Are we (the people who are paying for a fair amount of this.) really getting value for money?

The formula of 1 Professional for every 1000 Scouts sounds fair. That is until we look at a small Council of about 5,000 Scouts. Most of which are over staffed.

4 DE's at $32,000

1 Field Director at $50,000

1 Scout Executive at $80,000

$258,000 OR $51.60 per Scout add about 33% for benefits and we have almost $69. just to compensate the Professionals. Add the office staff and the overhead then add the cost of the program and it starts to mount up.

Could it be we need to look at what the Girl Scouts are doing and take a page out of their book -Heck maybe it's time we took the entire book.

Eamonn.

 

[Beavah]

A Scout Executive must usually have at least ten years of progressive non-profit managment experience.

 

Yah, yah. I wish this were the case, eh?

 

It would be great if a SE had 10 years of progressive NFP management experience in different organizations - Red Cross, Y, B&G clubs, education. Even better if they had an MBA in NFP management. Then they'd know somethin' about the real world of fundraisin', service-oriented leadership and the like. They'd be worth their salary.

 

The problem is that a council is limited to hirin' people with very limited real-world NFP management experience. If the county superintendent of schools or the 4-H regional director or the assistant CEO of the local hospital were long-time scouters and supporters of the program, they couldn't be hired, despite extensive local contacts and outstanding records as NFP leaders.

 

Only 10 years of inbred BSA trainin' of dubious quality, bouncin' between councils is allowed. Gotta be a company man, eh? Just pay 'em the same as yeh would someone with real experience. If yeh pretend hard enough, maybe it'll work out.