SOS - Barring former Scout from re-joining Troop?

[Comitteemom]

Would appreciate input re- Troop situation that's proven to be a hot potato. A boy formerly with our Troop would like to re-join, but some leaders have serious concerns, given a past history of disruptive and potentially-dangerous behavior (including verbal threats against others). The boy left the troop of his own accord 18 months ago, then recently approached Committee Chair and Scoutmaster about re-joining. Several assistant Scoutmasters are vehemently opposed to this, citing above history , lack of parental involvement and attention to such incidents, and bottom-line safety concerns for the rest of the Troop. The wrinkle: Though past incidents were addressed in one-on-one converstaions with parents, no formal disciplinary action was ever taken. Unit Commissioner sez we can't bar boy from re-joining. However, at recent outing, one Asst. SM discussed the issue with other Commissioners in attendance, and reports that they say we can bar the boy. I've been searching for days, and can't find anything on the BSA books re-policy on this. Can/should the boy be barred? This has become a very heated issue in an otherwise organized and cooperative group, and we're meeting with our UC about shortly, but could use some educated advice to prepare.

[EagleInKY]

The troop does have the right to bar the boy from joining the troop. There are not any true formal procedures you have to go through. You do run the risk that the boy's parents may run to council and could even hire a lawyer.

 

With that said, I would do some soul-searching to determine if this kid has maybe turned things around and wants to go at it right. If he's had a change of heart, why not give him a second chance? (With limits). If I let him back in, he'd be on a very short leash. No three strikes opportunity here.

[SemperParatus]

Just as BSA national can bar membership of certain people, a scout troop can do the same. The Chartered Organization can establish its membership policies with respect to troop members. The Troop Committee may act under the authority of the CO, but the institutional head of the CO has the final say in all matters.

 

I suppose the question that is at the front of my mind is why is the boy wanting to come back? Has there been some change of heart and attitude? I would suggest the SM, CC and COR sit down with the boy and his parents to discuss the situation, better understand the reasons for the return and communicate that the past behaviorial issues must not be repeated. I am all for giving a boy a second chance, a third chance, fourth chance... I hope the other adults can see their way clear to help this young man.

[GernBlansten]

I'm not sure the CO could bar this scout unless he didn't meet a pre-defined membership requirement set forth by the CO or National. The CO certainly can't create a new membership requirement just to keep this scout out. Check your troop guidelines for membership and see if he doesn't meet any of them. Otherwise, I think you are just asking for legal trouble. If he does rejoin, I too would keep him on a very short leash and lay out specific behaviour expectations. Of course, all scouts must be held to those same expectations.

[LongHaul]

First up the CO can refuse membership to anyone without having to explain their reasons. We are a private organization and the CO has the final say. In this instance the past history makes it easy for the CO to use safety of the members as a reason and should win any litigation. The most important question however has been raised already, Why does this boy want to come back? Is it the boy who wants to return or is it the parent(s) that want the boy back in Scouting? If the boy wants a second chance Id have to say give it to him. The boy left on his own so what ever happened did not result in his being expelled, the choice to return should still be his. Influencing young people is what we are about, it sounds as though this boy needs positive influence.

LongHaul

 

[Beavah]

The troop is the CO's youth program. They are free to deny membership to this boy, and any good CO will support their volunteer staff in this regard. If da boy gives yeh an application, simply refuse it. That's why it's an application, eh? Your UC needs some "additional learnin' opportunities."

 

Then we get to the Oath and Law, and yeh have a different question. Should you deny the application? I think that it's very hard for a boy with a reputation in a program to overcome all the adult and youth ill-feeling that you report. And, too, often boys who are makin' an attempt to turn around fall back into old behaviors when they are put back in old situations.

 

In most cases, it's not fair to the boy to put these extra hurdles in the way of his potential future scoutin' success. I'd be inclined to explain the situation and trot him over to a neighboring troop, where he can make a fresh go of it.

 

Only cows in the field know where the manure lies, so yeh have to make your own decision based on information we don't have here. Trust the sense of your adult and youth leaders; they know the most, and they're the ones who have to deal with it, eh?

 

 

 

[Comitteemom]

Thanks to all who've responded to my message; your information has been most helpful. Seems we need our COR to weigh in, especially since our CO is the church to which the boy's parent (formerly parents; one now not particularly in the picture) belongs. So obviously, we have some complicating factors that will play into this; particularly the decision of whether to give a boy whose been through a lot over the past 2 years another chance in the spirit of Scouting, or whether the serious nature of safety concerns must prevail for the welfare of the Troop. The question of why the boy wants to come back is one we've already considered, and though theories abound, only he can tell us that. Hopefully, our upcoming meeting - and the help you've all supplied - will determine whether or not he'll have a venue in which to tell us. Again, my sincere thanks!

[mtm25653]

I would suggest talking to the boy about why he wants to rejoin, and asking him about the behavior in the past - what is different about him now.

 

If he wants to join, and is trying to put his past behind him, I say give him a chance, with some groundrules - if you do x, you can't be a part of the troop. This is the kind of boy who may need scouting the most.

 

Our troop took in a boy kicked out of another troop for bullying when he was about 13 or 14. Our leaders talked with him about what was acceptable, and monitored him fairly closely. He grew up a lot, earned his Life and was working on his Eagle. Then he took another step back, and had an issue with drugs at school. Our troop suspended him, but he had 3 or 4 years of positive experiences and positive role models (family was not attentive). I count him as one of our troop's successes, even though he still got into trouble.

[t158sm]

We recently had a situation that kind of relates to this. Bottom line - our committee refused membership to an adult based on past history in another Scouting unit. Council advised us just like Longhaul said - we are a private organization and can deny membership on whatever grounds we deem necessary.

[t158sm]

Sorry, forgot the most important part of what I wanted to say.

Let the Scouts decide if he should be allowed to rejoin or not. Afterall it't their troop.

[Eamonn]

While asking the other Scouts (PLC?)might be a good idea.

The Scout Troop does not belong to the Scouts any more than it belongs to the leaders.

The CO has the final word on who is in and who isn't.

From what has been posted, I feel that I don't have enough information to form an opinion.

I do wonder what the "Several assistant Scoutmasters are vehemently opposed to this" will do if the CO goes ahead and invites the Lad back?

At the end of the day, they really have no say in the matter.

Eamonn.

[Aquila calva]

The boy approached Committee Chair and Scoutmaster about re-joining.

 

This was a good place for him to start. While the chartered organization (through the institutional head and/or the chartered organization representative) has the right to make a final determination as to who can join a scout troop, most COs are not all that engaged and will leave the joining decisions up to the troop leaders.

 

The only two signatures required on an application for membership in a Boy Scout Troop are the boys parent/guardian and the unit leader. (The old Boy Scout form asked for Signature of Scoutmaster. The newest multi-unit form asks for Signature of unit leader. In a Boy Scout Troop this could be Scoutmaster or, presumably, Committee Chair.)

 

So, if the boy gets his parent to sign the application, and gets the Scoutmaster or Committee Chair to sign (and as long as there is no objection from the CO, IH or COR) then the boy is a member of the troop. It would probably not be a great idea for the SM to sign the application if the CC has an objection and visa versa. They, at least, need to form a unified opinion.

 

Now, how the Scoutmaster and/or Committee Chair deal with the opinions and feelings of the other adults and scouts in the unit will be interesting to watch. That's called leadership. And that may be the real source of the dilemma.

 

[Aquila calva]

I hope the troop gives the boy another chance, especially if his parents were going through a separation during the previous period of "acting out."

 

[i know, I know...it's "viCe versa." That was bugging me. My Latin teacher would be so disappointed.]

 

[eagle90]

You mentioned safety concerns a few times in your post. Before we give any advice, I think we need clarification as to what these safety concerns and issues are.

 

 

[Comitteemom]

To reply to request for details re-safety concerns, they seem to center on one incident in which the boy was discovered with a drawing he'd made depicting violence against an authority figure (not a leader, if that matters)at a campout, and various verbal incidents that I don't have specifics on, but leaders report they occured on a regular basis and were of a violent, threatening nature against other boys...

 

To update on the situation (and thank all again for their input) Committee and adult leadership decided that they could not/would want to approve this boy's membership application (which wd need to be re-submitted due to timeframe). The overriding concern they cited: Because of past history with other Scouts and leaders, that "short leash" referenced above might prove too short for any boy to succeed on; they've since asked that I, as CC, advise the parent that if he does indeed want to come back to Scouting, a fresh start in another Troop would be the best way to go. After doing so this a.m., I've come away from the ordeal with the strong conviction that this is, indeed, best - but an equally strong feeling that this situation could have turned out better if those one-on-one convos with the parent had been a bit more formal in nature, which we will make every effort to change in the future. But the fact that it won't help this particular boy, who's already been through so much, and now must face this rejection, hits hard to say the least. Still not done w/this, since parent has asked for meeting to discuss, with the purpose of setting the record straight regarding behavioral infractions she was/was not informed of. Thanks again to all...