changing councils

[brooktrout]

Have any troops ever asked their councils for a 'release' to join a neighboring council? If so, what sort of reply did you receive from your home council? We've been involved in such an action since last December, and have not had the matter resolved to our satisfaction.

[t158sm]

Welcome to the forum Brooktrout.

Your easiest move may be to simply let your charter drop and register as a new unit in the council you want to move to. Your old council may try to give you some static or hold things up if you try to transfer an intact unit to another council.

What has been said or done about your request so far if anything?

[NJCubScouter]

I suppose anything is possible, but in theory such an effort should not succeed, since a council serves a defined geographic area. I would be surprised if a "neighboring" council would accept a charter from a unit that is not within its defined area. Beyond the fact that it would probably violate the council's own charter from national, a council that accepted such a unit charter could hardly complain the next month when two of its own units decided to join a different council. Eventually the whole idea of councils as geographic entities would begin to erode.

 

There is, of course, a way to change councils, and that is to change where your troop meets so that it is in a different council. That is probably not a practical solution unless your unit is very close to the border of the council, and even then, it would probably be better and less disruptive to just resolve whatever issues you are having with your current council.

[scoutldr]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the COuncil you're in is dependent on where the CO is, not necessarily where you meet, where the leaders live or where the scouts leave (if different). The only way to do what you are suggesting, as far as I know, is to find a CO within your desired Council to charter your unit. You can ask the old CO to relinquish your unit number if you want to keep it, but they don't have to.

[nldscout]

as others have said there is no way to do this legally, I say that because councils are legal non-for-profits that are set up to support a defined area. So if your CO is in council A you cannot use them as CO to charter in Council B. Even the council cannot legally allow this without rinking thier status.

 

So you option is to find a CO that is in the council boundries of the council you want to join. Have them charter the unit. As to numbers that really isn't an issue as the number would have to come from the NEW council, so unless someone in that district is using it, you should have no problem. You do however have the issue of equipment and funds to address.

 

Not to change subject, but why do you want to change councils? Care to share your reasoning?

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

Scoutldr, you are probably right. I was not really making a distinction between "where the CO is" and "where the troop meets," probably because in my experience they have always been the same place. I suppose there could be situations where they are not. I am sure some CO's have multiple locations and a unit may meet at one that is not in the same council as where the CO's headquarters is. There may be some ambiguous situations (the church that is the CO is on one side of the street but the troop meets in the church's Sunday School building on the other side of the street, and the street is the council boundary) but I would hope and expect that this (undoubtedly rare) situation would be covered by the "rule of common sense."

 

However, I was not suggesting that brooktrout's troop go meet in the street somewhere, 5 feet over the council boundary. In the vast majority of cases, "moving the troop" would also involve getting a new CO.

[brooktrout]

After numerous discussions and correspondence between the National, NE Region and Council offices, none of which helped us to reach our objective, we will probably let our charter expire and then charter as a new unit in our neighboring council. We do have an organization within our target council that is most willing to be our chartering organization.

[scoutldr]

Good luck, brooktrout. Now that the decision's been made, can you enlighten us on what prompted the desire to go to a different council?

 

Just another thought...there is really no reason why you have to wait for your current charter to expire. In fact, if you form the new unit now, everyone can transfer for $1 each as long as you still have a current registration somewhere. Your CO owns the unit charter and can keep it going as long as they want...that doesn't mean you have to stick with it until they pull the plug.

[fotoscout]

Another example of running away from the problem.

 

Why don't you step up and help correct the problems that are driving you away from your Council?

 

foto

[campcrafter]

Since we do not know any details at all about the situation, one cannot say they are running away and have not stepped up to try and rectify the situation.

 

cc

 

[eaglebeader]

Yes, you could move to a new CO, but remember that you belong to your current CO and all property (troop owned items, ie camping equipment, trailers, buses, etc) and money in your accounts are theirs not "yours". Your unit belongs to them lock, stock and barrel and if they chose not to release their property to you, when you move - you are just out of luck. Good luck.

[John-in-KC]

What Eaglebeader said.

 

Now, has the Chartered Partner Executive Officer and COR visited the SE and DE yet?

 

Have those two said to the DE and SE "We believe you are not fulfilling your end of the Charter Agreement; we intend to drop our Charter in your Council and move to XYZ Council?" yet?

 

As fotoscout said, you'll give them an opportunity to answer the mail on quality of support.

 

Of course, which of the following tenets of the Charter Agreement is the Council not honoring?

 

 

Respect the aims and objectives of the organization and offer the resources of Scouting of help in meeting those objectives.

 

Provide year-round training, service, and support to the organization and its unit (s).

 

Provide training and support for the chartered organization representative as the primary communication link between the organization and the B.S.A.

 

Provide techniques and methods for selecting quality unit leaders and then share in the approval of those leaders. (A council representative must sign all leader applications.)

 

Provide primary general liability insurance to cover the chartered organization, its board, officers, chartered organization representatives and employees against all personal liability judgments. The insurance includes attorney's fees and court costs as well as any judgment brought against the individual or organization. Unit leaders are covered in excess of any personal coverage they might have, or, if there is no personal coverage, the B.S.A. insurance immediately picks them up on a primary basis.

 

Provide camping facilities, service center, and full-time professional staff to assist the organization in every way possible.

To assist the chartered organization with a religious affiliation in the promotion of the religious emblems program.

 

To join with the chartered organization in promoting and encouraging the practice of the daily good turn as a part of basic citizenship training.

 

To work with the chartered organization in extending the Scouting opportunity to the greatest possible number of youth and families.

 

 

John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[brooktrout]

Here's an overdue update on our request to change councils...

Our DE met with the CO, and then with the troop committee. He was quite understanding of our concerns and agreed in principle to our request. (Note here that our Council Scout Executive, to date, has not responded to our letters and calls as he promised he would. Nor have we heard directly from the National Office.) Our DE explained that due to geographical boundaries, the council's Director of Field Services has effectivly nixed our request. The Northeast Region Deputy Regional Director(Michael C. Childers) informed us, via letter, that "We at the Northeast Region have carefully reviewed your request and also the recommendation of the Greater Pittsburgh Council, BSA to grant your request. However, I regret to inform you that national BSA policy preempts the recommendations and yuor request is denied." (Note here that GPC was evidently willing to grant our request.) The letter goes on to point out that "Council affiliations are determined strictly by geography", and that our troop "resides within the council boundary lines of the Greater Pittsburgh Council".

So we have renewed our charter for another year and the scouts have recently returned from summer camp at the council's Heritage Reservation, which is located within the 'council boundary lines' of our neighboring council. Interesting, indeed.

 

 

[nldscout]

Lots of Council camps are located in another council bounderies. That is not unusual especially for urban based councils.

 

So enlighten us as to what the issue here was?

[emb021]

"So enlighten us as to what the issue here was?"

 

Agree. this is one thing I have yet to see.