Gags Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 We just finished our modestly successful Spring Camporee and are getting ready to submit our finalized budget/balance sheet. Despite the # of questions I have, I'll try and keep this short: 1. What do your districts charge for Camporees? (We charged $10 per attendee) 2. What does your Council charge? On our budget forms, there's a 10% council support fee (so $1 from every fee goes to Council). There's also a "Liability Recovery" charge of $1 per day (I'm treating this as just $1 / attendee - I can't see paying $3.00 insurance for a Fri - Sun campout). I've asked our Field Director (we've had no DE for the past several months), and he said the $1 was for a rider policy the Council has. He did not know at the time how this differs from the $1 we pay at recharter. Does anyone else encounter these fees? 20% of our budget is theoretically gone before we even incur any expenses. Thanks in advance for your input, Gags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Gags, Welcome to the wonderful world of "off the top scout accounting".... Your Council sounds pretty normal...our District Camporees general "charge" the scouts between $11 and $14.00 per head...usually depending on where it is held. The policy you "hear" about is for an event rider not the coverage the scouts get at recharter...Each event has specific "loss" potential for the campground, Council, District and you...that "potential" is spread out by having the per scout charge...sort of like having an umbrella policy over and above you home owners and your car policy (you do have one right?) I am not an insurance salesman nor do I play one on TV...but if some one can sue they probably will...its worth a buck or two...then there are patches, campground/site overhead, cracker barrel and supplies, and other expenses...(your District didn't really think you were gonna make any money on these things did it?) Anarchist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nldscout Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Why would you have such a thing as an "Event Rider"? Liability insurance is provided by national for the entire program at a set rate regardless of number and type of activities. Sounds like so much bull to me! I would ask why or better yet don't charge for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t158sm Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Event riders are a part of the norm for our camporees. We've had to plan this into budget for all of the camporees I've been involved in running. Sounds like we're getting off cheap compared to some out there, a camporee usually runs about $7 per person for folks around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 nldscout, bull or not... suggest you obtain the insurance policy certificate that the registration dollar gets you...and read it...if you are in a car accident...for a scouting event...YOUR insurance is in line first....then the BSA policy (IF you have covered all the 'bases' (CYA so to speak)...Many camp grounds and assembly places want much more assurance (insurance?) that what is "BSA" typical...and so should you... hence my 'subtle' suggestion we all should look at an "unbrella" for our own coverage... sad but true Anarchist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 nldscout, God forbid you should find yourself in a leadership position when a youth is killed or seriously injured. I think you will find that the National Liability insurance is more for the protection of National than the individual leader. Many illusions are shattered when "something" happens and "someone is going to pay" replaces friendly, courteous and kind. One thing that remains constant is "Be Prepared". LongHaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gags Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 LongHaul / Anarchist, So it sounds like in this case, Council (NCAC, like yourself Anarchist) has a rider in place to act as an umbrella / liability policy for the volunteers, whereas the $1 paid at rechartering is mostly for the more limited National policy. Guess it's time to find out exactly how much of my own a__ is covered by both National & Council. Follow-up question for everyone - if the Camporee loses money, who covers the difference? Can Council cover until the expenses are re-couped @ the next Camporee / event? Thanks for the clarification, Gags(This message has been edited by Gags) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNYScouter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 AH, the old insurance debate has resurfaced. As being in the same council as nldscout and just setting through a presentation about our councils insurance by one of our DE to an organization concidering being a CO he explained it like this. Our councils insurance will cover any person's, organizations or business property when being used with permission by the scouts and following the G2SS. The insurance covered liability and any damaged cuased by the scouts. There was no extra costs involved. He went on to say that at a Scout show, put on by one of our districts at a local mall this winter, a woman tripped over one of the Troops displays and sued. She tried to sue the mall, the troop and the council. Becuase this happen at a council event, the council was the only one she could sue and its insurance company was handling the case. I don't know how it works in other states or councils but this is how the DE explained how our insurance worked. And our spring camp-o-ree fee is $6, including a patch. Two districts are teaming up and holding it at one of our council camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglebeader Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 IMHO socut insurance is a shell game. Although our DE's know say that BSA insurance is primary, but I HAVE YET TO SEE IT IN WRITING. My son was hit by a car while attending Scout a Rama one year.My insurance picked up the entire thing excepect for some minor $400 - 500 range items. Scout insurance would pay nothing! Luckly he is fine now - short of needing special arch supports for foot damage ( the car skidded across his foot at 30 mph.) he is 21 years old and an Eagle Scout. We sued the driver of the car and the mall wear teh event took place. The had refused a request for traffic control devices from our Scout a rama committee. My insurance agent was on the committee - so he helped out with the info. We one but minamal amount. I still refuse to shop in that mall to this day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglebeader Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Oh my gosh - I just read what I wrote. Sorry for the spelling. Thats what I get for trying to work and type at the same time. It is amazing how our jobs interfer with important stuff like SCOUTING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srisom Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Our council has, over the past year, forced the districts to charge a $1/per day/per participant fee on top of what was being charged for District Camporees. Our cost for a camporee is now $6. This fee is to cover the insurance, we are told. In the past, the council paid for the insurance, now they want the youth and volunteers to pay for it. Apparently, this is a mandate from national. We have tried to stress to our council that if they continue to add these fees, we will lose some youth because many cannot continue to afford Scouting. Our problem is that the insurance premium that the council pays is for insurance that is supposed to cover everyone in the council. However, not everyone is having to pay their part of the fee. Those that participate in a camporee, etc. are paying for the insurance, while the insurance alos covers units and individuals that may not participate in that camporee or other events. We just don't think that's fair. We feel that the fee should be added at registration time so that everyone pays. Just another example of Scouting being run by business people and not Scouting people. Scouting is now Accounting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srisom Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Also, the budgets for the camporees can no longer be completed by the District Camporee person. They have to be completed by the District Executive and the Field Director. The budget now also inludes a $25 charge for printing to send out info on the camporee - this past time it was sent out electronically only. Another item that has been added is a 10% overage charge - something for the council in case the camporee does not make budget. Our district has three camporees a year and the last time we did not make budget was 15 years ago. In fact, for the three camporees we usually have close to $1,000 left over. Who gets this - right, the council, yet they continue to charge us all the additional fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nldscout Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 When we merged a few years ago, the new council tried that $1 for insurance per event lie. We just told them we were not gonna pay it. We now pay $1 per scout and leader per year for the whole year, so everyone pays the same. As for the other charges, just tell them your not gonna collect them, and if they try, you will cancel the evnt and they will get squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hikeoholic Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 nldscout, If you cancel an event just because council wants to charge a fee who are you really affecting? Not the council the council will just go on with business as usual. the only ones that will be affected is the young man we are in the program for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nldscout Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 ok, so have your event, don't charge the fee then. what are they going to do? Sue you? We just told our council we flat out were not going to screw our scouts to line the councils pockets. All the SM's and CM's in our old coucil told them NO, so they had to back down and went to a fee for everyone at registration time. If they say its for extra insurance ask to see the policy for that event, I bet they can't produce it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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