Is it time for a rethink?

[jkhny]

While some may question the focus on "the outdoors" and speculate that is part of the decline in Scouting I disagree. Our Council is a suburban one with relatively few parents focused on "real" outdoors activities yet our Troop (and others) have thrived by providing a true "High Adventure" program- hiking, camping, ice climbing, rafting, even dog sledding.

 

We have Troops that are drawing in boys with NO Cub Scouting experience - boys that crave the types of things we are doing. We produce long serving Scouts - a few Eagles every year and have a dedicated core of adult support. This Troop is little different from the Troop of MY youth - except we do BETTER in having boys earn advancement. And this is in an area where you are NOT likely to have boys coming from families with a strong history of "outdoors" activities.

 

But we succeed IN SPITE of BSA and our Council - with much effort on our part to compensate for the "shortcomings" in Scouting facilities here.

 

Part of the problem is that our Council has lost the "intermediate" level of facilities that used to exist. We used to have a number of reservations and summer camps. Some were "local" - less than 1 hour away with cabins, lakes, fields - relatively "civilized" and perfect for first time summer camp for younger Scouts. One summer camp was close enough it could be used for weekend events as well. Our "high adventure" camp was in the Adirondacks and really directed towards older and more experienced Scouts. Well, the close camps are now gone - hurting our program. New, costly and "overdone" cabins have been built in our one remaining "local" reservation - fine and cushy for Cub Scouts but a bit luxurious for "real" camping. But try to book a weekend. Demand ususally outstrips supply. But outside of the cabins, there are few good "camping" spots there with little flat land. The place is NOT good for running events, lacking open space and parking.

 

The reservation itself lacks the variety the old places provided. It's a pile of rocks around a stagnant lake - with a big swamp - hardly that appealing.

 

The remaining summer camp is largely the same - patched tents on rotting platforms strewn on rocky hillsides - I was a bit appalled when comparing this camp to my old summer camp.

 

So, you have extremes in accommodations in one sense - good for Cub Scouts and OK for "roughing it" but nothing in between. There's little of the variety we had at camp. Your Troop could book a clearing in a forest with platform tents one year, floored open face cabins another or a real "camping " experience in the woods.

 

BSA has hurt itself immensely with asset sales. Chicago is fighting this now. But somehow, there's millions to build new Council offices.....

 

Again, BSA needs to start listening to the leaders who ARE successful. Instead they are ignored by their Councils. BSA is LOSING the experienced Scouters who have been the core of Scouting. BSA has lost over 1/4 of its Council level adult leadership in the past 5 years. Veteran Scoutmasters here - who should be moving up to Council as their kids age out want nothing to do with Council. They stayed involved locally for the boys but have been so put off by the "politics" and BS at the Council level, well, things are falling apart there.....

 

And IMO and in my experience, Scouting here has been dependent on a very few dedicated Scouters who are the core of Scouting in their community. They were the "institutional" memory and served as Commissioners or Assistant Scoutmasters for decades. You lose these people and you lose Scouting. And these people are getting fed up with the sales of property and the focus on "numbers and money."

 

And there IS something to be said for "expanding " the focus and reach of Scouting. Explorers tried that but little came of it. Still even simple things like a "Robotics" Merit Badge seem to beyond the comprehension of an ossified National Leadership that is NOT responsive to those that actually deal with kids.

 

[johndaigler]

I think the "run it like a business" conversation is a bit off-target. Other than the masthead of Boy's Life or Scouting, where do you go to find inofrmation about the BSA's National Executive Board? Top level leadership comes pretty close to a prohibited "secret organization". Someone mentioned salaries - I can't find any of that info. This clearly isn't a "business model" that's acceptable in today's America. The latest culturally forced trend is independant boards to run companies. Surely, the BSA isn't even in the team picture of "run it like a business". IMHO, it seems to be run like a Men's Club from the 50's.

 

 

jd

[Prairie_Scouter]

You know, John, when you put it that way, you're right. BSA isn't run like a business. It's been a constant point of irritation to me that I can't seem to easily find information about how the National office is structured, who the leaders are, how things are done, etc. Maybe I'm just not seeing it and it is available, but while units and Councils seem to provide all sorts of info about what they're doing and who they are, National doesn't seem to do that. There are people on the forums who seem to have that information, so it must be available someplace, I wonder why it's not published on the National website. Just a poor, overworked Webmaster, perhaps?

[Bob White]

National's responsibilities are to

Train Scouting professionals: Have the professionals in your area attended their training?

 

Train Adult and Youth members: Have you attended any of the over 70 training courses available through the BSA?

 

Develop resources to support the program: Are there handbooks and manuals produced to support the unit program?

 

Develop and regulate the Advancement Program, do you have a structured advancement program with recognitions?

 

Develop and regulate the BSA program: Have you been given a program to follow?

 

Develop the rules ad regulations to safeguard the program and its participants: Guide to =Safe Scouting, youth Protection, Advancement rules, Insignia Guide, Climb on Safely, etc.

 

Maintain and operate high adventure bases for use by BSA members: Are you aware of Philmont, Northern Tier, Sea Base?

 

Manage the growth of the BSA movement: Remember all those membership and financial goals some people whine about.

 

The problem is not that the BSA isn't doing their job, the problem is some scouters never bother to ask what their job is.

 

The problem isn't that the BSA is a secret...its not, some people just never bother to ask for answers.

 

You don't need a secret password to learn about scouting beyond the unit level.

 

Why is lack of knowledge the other guys fault? Who told you that you could not go out and learn about things you do not know about?

 

[Prairie_Scouter]

This being the 21st century, and with the wide breadth of knowledge available on the Internet, I would think that BSA would have long since provided all of this information through their website, but it doesn't appear that they do.

 

Bob, while all of that information you provided is certainly worthwhile, that is the kind of information that IS publicly available. Trying to dig up information on BSA national structure, how decisions are made, etc, that I mentioned above, doesn't seem to be readily available. I'd have to think that if it's some BSA publication, you would have said so. BSA management doesn't need to be a "black box".

 

There's an old concept in customer service that if your customer thinks something is wrong, something is wrong. It's the responsibility of the organization providing the service, in this case BSA, to make sure that they provide information in an easily accessible way.

 

But, ok, I'll take your word that it is available someplace. On the offchance that they've simply not done the job of making it visible on the Internet someplace, I'll give my DE a call tomorrow and see if he can point me towards that information. I'll report back what they say.

[Eamonn]

Man oh man, I wish we didn't have to deal with the financial side of Scouting.

Having not long ago come home after a very long and very heated Executive Board meeting, an extraordinary meeting, called to deal with the financial crisis our Council is facing, please believe me when I say that the heat of the Jamboree was far more enjoyable.

I suppose that we could have sat around and pointed fingers ans appointed blame, I'm really glad that we didn't. We did agree to some cuts that really are not going to hurt anyone. Simple things like not going out of house to print calenders, Annual reports, cutting back on awards and recognitions, up-dating the Council web site and doing away with the Council newspaper. We will save a little over $50,000 by the end of the year. Sad to say we need to find or cut another $106,000.

A list of other cuts was shown things like cutting professional staff, cutting program and programs, selling camps.

In part thanks to the input that I have received from the wise people in this forum, when the discussions about which area would be cut started, I said that I thought what we were doing was wrong and if we went ahead we would not be meeting the mission of the BSA. In fact some board members nearly swallowed their false teeth when I said that if we went ahead with these cuts we might as well admit that we had failed and we needed to look into merging the Council.

We have close to sixty people on the board if we all kick in an extra $500.00, that should bring in $30,000.

We will once again have to hold back some money that should go into the endowment fund. There was some heated debate about this. When I said it was a no brainer and us having a healthy endowment fund and a sick Council made no sense, there was still talk about how we couldn't take money away from endowment!! Dieing rich has never ranked very highly with me!!

We have set up a small committee that will look at the Council Strategic Long Term Plan and see if there are areas that can be pruned, without causing too much damage.

We know that we will have to not put in all the money that should go into endowment, but that's life. I wish I had put more money into my investments when I was younger, instead I went around the world and had a wonderful time. The fact is that we can't have it both ways.

Next years budget will be gone over so closely by everyone, I think that we will be lucky to get out of that meeting before midnight.

We are going to have to raise more money, find more grant money and maybe dig a little deeper into our own pockets.

All in all I think we came out of the meeting with a new resolve to do a better job and strange as it may seem I think we all came out wanting to serve the youth that we serve better than we have been doing so.

Now I have to explain to Her That Must Be Obeyed, that I need another $500!! Does anyone want to buy a Golden Retriever? On second thoughts if he goes, who will share the dog house with me. No Rory is not for sale. I'll have to sell my patches on E-bay, but that's OJ's inheritance.

Eamonn.

[madkins007]

You know, if we were talking about most other businesses, all we'd have to do is to band together and start a new company to compete.

 

However, the BSA effectively squashed that option in the US. Here in one of the largest and most diverse counries in the world, we can only have ONE Boy Scout program while some other countries can run 2 or 3 at once.

 

This country is diverse enough that we cannot even agree on basic issues- partly out of human nature, but partly out of regional variation.

 

Take the outdoors focus. Hereabouts, the 'outdoors' is mostly fringe pieces of land unwanted for farming and most of our state parks are unashamedly geared for the needs of fishermen and RVers. Our Scouts get pretty tired of hitting the 4 or 5 good spots all the time, especially since they are pretty worn environmentally as well. This is not a land of big cities and concrete, just miles upon miles of crops and farms.

 

However, in other parts of the country, even neighboring councils, the outdoor opportunities thrive and are still a major calling card.

 

I think the current structure of the BSA tends to try to homogenize us all into one big melting pot- and it is just too much to hope for.

[Prairie_Scouter]

Eamonn,

 

(not to open another debate but, Goldens, ahh, the best big ole dogs on the face of the earth, bar none. No matter how bad my day might be, good old Buddy (my Golden) is always there having a good day and happy to share it with me)

 

I've been involved in the running of a non-profit in the past, and believe me, I feel your pain. Priorities can get pretty painful. But I agree with your assessment 100% that there's no point in having a healthy endowment if there's no one left to endow it to. Have to keep a balance, of course, but it sounds like you guys have some long range talking to do. I don't envy you that. Maybe you should bring Rory along. At least everyone will be in a better mood.

[johndaigler]

jkhny - It's easy to see your angst, and it will be easy for many to discount your passion. But your words ring true and ask questions that deserve answers.

 

Speaking of questions and answers . . .

 

"

. . .,

. . .,

 

The problem is not that the BSA isn't doing their job, the problem is some scouters never bother to ask what their job is.

 

The problem isn't that the BSA is a secret...its not, some people just never bother to ask for answers.

 

You don't need a secret password to learn about scouting beyond the unit level.

 

Why is lack of knowledge the other guys fault? Who told you that you could not go out and learn about things you do not know about? "

 

And, yet, with all that challenging and insulting diatribe, you bring the shadow no closer to illumination. I made it quite clear, here and in other threads - I CAN'T FIND THE INFORMATION. CAN SOMEONE HELP ME, PLEASE?

 

 

IMHO, BW, posts like your last effort are why angst often surrounds your words. Your post did nothing to help anyone. Your words are like a teacher who thinks telling kids they're wrong is somehow motivational. Gee, thanks, I'm so much smarter now.

 

jd

 

PS>> Moderators, feel free, cuz I won't be self-moderating this one.