Webelos & Camping

[Bob White]

They built the bridge several years ago Laura, its called teh New Scout Patrol. Unfortunately not every Scoutmaster chooses to use it.

 

Bob White

[hops_scout]

Though camping is a primary part of Boy Scouts, some boys, including my brother, have no interest in it. If a boy wants to learn camping skills, he will in the program. BTW, it must be a local thing for you to have learned so much about camping in Girl Scouts. All three of my sisters were/are in Girl Scouts and none of them have the expereince/ training that I have had in three years in Boy Scouts. And sometimes I help at day camp and very few of them know anything.

[LauraT7]

I've heard that before - from many people and places - that my experience with girl scouting was unique - and it's a shame - because I and my friends got SO MUCH out of it.

 

there was not alot of pressure to learn to camp - or even to LIKE camping. But i happened to come from a camping family. Much of our grade-school level camping, (3rd through 5th grade Juniors, and Jr high Cadettes -we didn't have Daisies then and Brownies were not allowed to camp - only day activities)was the kind of wimpy car-camping most boy scout troops would sneer at. In many ways - they were cheapie girlfriend sleepovers - many in family backyards - but it did give us an early 'taste' independance and skills- we learned to build fires, put up a tent and tie the knots needed to make it stand up, chop vegtables for stew or sloppy joes, work in patrols - all at a much earlier age than boy scouts do.

 

Our patrol system was different, too - a patrol was assigned a job for the whole troop - one patrol cooked for the whole troop, one patrol cleaned up (but everyone did their own personal dishes), one did latrines, etc. instead of individuals doing jobs within the smaller patrols. I think it promoted more of a 'teamwork' mentality, earlier in life.

 

Girl scouts also did not require 1 on 1, child/parent on overnights - ever. maybe 1/4?or 1/6? I think this is a big reason why cubs don't go camping as much - it's tough to get 1/1 consistant parental involvement - especially when you have more than one kid in the family!

 

I'm not saying that they should move the boy scout program downward - just that they should do less "crafty" junk (and believe me - i LOVED the crafts!) and more practical skills in cubs- just to introduce them earlier. I think the Cubs would find it more fun, too - than making paper plate halloween skeltons, etc.

 

At the age of 11/12 - 6th grade - all kids are already dealing with HUGE changes in their lives - Jr high, changing classes, hormones, if the scouting program had a less abrupt change from totally adult driven Cubs where the boys are passive pawns expecting parents to direct every move, to a place where some of the skills and traditions are a more stair-stepped upward trail - from day camping, to car camping with a high ratio of adults, but not 1/1, to troop camping with less and less adult involvement - I think we would retain more boys and families.

 

Picture this - a boy comes into a troop: not used to planning and directing himself - but he already knows how to put up some kind of tent and has slept in one often enough not to be scared by normal night sounds, he has used a latrine before and isn't totally freaked by the smell, he knows how to light a match without getting burned fingers and some basics about what makes a fire stay lit or go out, and has used a paringknife to chop veggies & he has cooked something more difficult than hot dogs on a stick on said fire at least a few times.

 

it would be so much easier to build on that previous knowledge gained at more tractable ages, than to try to pull over the whole changeover at once.

 

Does anyone see what i mean?

 

all of these are skills well within the reach of the average 4th grader, and at the younger age - they are more likely to listen and obey the adult leaders on basic knowledge ans safety issues. But we make them wait until they are in 6th or 7th grade - when they are starting to fight everything & everyone for independance and everything is new and strange. Instead they come into the troop, and school, parents, scouts - all of a sudden everyone expects them to 'grow up' and learn all kinds of new things and new rules and SELF DIRECTION and CONTROL. One guide hands 10 - 11 yr olds a box of matches, shows them how to lay a fire and then wonders why they want to 'play' with the fire - it's new, they think they know everything, and they don't have enough supervision, that's why! Do it when they are 4th graders and you have 2 or 3 leaders for this size group - and they learn better and the novelty will have worn off some by 6th grade!

 

Like i said - i came from a camping family - and my son came from a camping family - the reason i took my Webelos with us on our personal family campouts was not just so Jon could have a buddy along to play with - it's because so many working families are NOT campers - and they have so much to do with multiple children families to care for - that they often 'do for' a kid rather than teach him to do for himself. It's easier. I have seen so many 11- 13 yr old boys who have not cracked an egg? used a paring knife? afraid to lite a match?

 

Someone on this board said he knew an Eagle Scout going off to college who's mother wouldn't LET him touch the washing machine and soap for fear he's ruin the clothes? Who's going to wash his clothes at college?

 

I just think that the boys are capable of more than the ADULTS want to be bothered with - and in the end - it makes it tougher for everyone.

 

And BW - I DO know of the NSP and have mixed feelings about it. Our first attempt with it has not been good - as the dynamics of the boys in the new patrol reinforced POOR behavior as much or more than it reinforced GOOD habits. We do not have enough ASM's- we should have an adult advisor for each patrol - especially THAT one - and no one stepped forward. We also SHOULD have a troop guide or instructor that could help guide them - and we don't have a suitable boy leader for the position. Our past habit of mixing new boys into existing patrols seems to work better for us - but i don't think we're ready to give up on NSP yet.

 

Even so - I think it would be better if the boys in the NSP had some inkling of what to expect in Boy scouts, some groundwork - and they didn't have a clue. Cubs is just TOO different.

 

 

[Bob White]

I'm glad to hear you havent given up on trying to incorporate the NSP Laura.

 

Without an ASM and a Troop Guide it is expect4ed that you have behavior problems. You take 6 or 8 boys who are used to havin two adults leading their way the whole time and give them no one and trouble is bound to follow.

 

Without a doubt a trained ASM and a responsible TG must be in place BEFORE you try to establish a NSP. The program works but it will require the use of all the leadership elements.

 

Good Luck

BW

[hops_scout]

Currently, my Eagle Scout friend and I are troop guides for our new scout patrol. This is the same patrol that I was a den chief for since 2001. The Scoutmaster thought it would be good to have me there so they knew somebody.

[SR540Beaver]

Laura,

 

Cub camping is pretty dependent on the Pack's leadership. My son is a Webelos 2 and joined as a Webelos 1 last September. Our Webelos have been on 5 or 6 campouts since we joined. The pack has had a couple of one night campouts. Our Cub Master explained to me that our pack did not campout until he came along. He loves camping and has tried to incorporate it into our activities as much as possible. However, even in the Webelos, there are people who will camp and people who will not camp. Our Webelos campouts consist of about a third of our den and it is basically the same kids each time. Same for pack campouts. Many parents get their kids involved in Cubs with no expectation of camping. They want a fun, clean, wholesome activity for their kids to attend. Many of them have never camped, have no interest in camping, have no camping equipment and are perfectly happy to do the arts and crafts and pass on the camping. My experience so far is that you can tell which ones are planning on crossing over and which ones are planning on packing it in after Webelos. We've already had a number of parents tell us they will be dropping out after Webelos to pursue other interests. I think there has to be a balance. Cubs is supposed to be fun and arts and crafts. But sprinkling in a little camping here and there for those who like it or are willing to try it out is a good thing too. We did break the rules on a Webelos den campout last December. In trying to teach the boys a few camping skills to whet their appetite for what is to come, we let them try to build a one match fire with plenty of adult supervision. So many of the Cub camping rules are restrictive and lend themself to Mom and Dad doing everything for the boys. That is appropriate for Tigers and Wolves, but by Bears and especially for Webelos, we need to start expecting a little help out of them and some learning to take place to interest them in doing the big stuff in a year or two. My feeling is that one single Den/Troop campout prior to crossover is not always enough to entice the boy to make a decision. We need to get them in the woods and doing a little for themselves as much as possible.

[hops_scout]

I had gone on maybe one campout before WEBLOS. Now, it is like second nature. I think they need to experience it before joining a troop even if the parents do most of the work.

[Bob White]

The BSA agrees Hops. The Cubbing program is ecouraged to camp often and camp easy. th eidea is to get the boys AND the adults comfortable being outdoors overnight.

 

Bob White