Jschlich Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 OOEC's position and information is at www.ooec.org. I'll let everyone read for themselves what's there rather than give dignity to arbitrary claims. I do not live in Blue Lake Township as Long Haul states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 nldscout, I absolutely believe National would have dissolved the Chicago Area Council had the civil suit not been dropped. I believe they would have put a board of their choosing into place if the slate had not been approved. As for the power to do this I simply state that National issues charters to councils the same as councils enter into chartering agreements with COs. If National decides not to extend the charter for a council that council no longer exists. When councils merge it is rarely at the request of the councils involved. Jschlich, I stand corrected as to your residence but would like to ask if you are a property owner of that area? LongHaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 From the OOEC web site; Will Owasippe continue to be used as a Boy Scout camp? Yes, we certainly hope so. Owasippe will offer outstanding programs and facilities and will make them available to any BSA Council or individual Scout Troop or Venture Crew. The OOEC would assure that the Owasippe facilities, staff and operations will meet or exceed the National Standards of the BSA before making it available to Scouts. The OOEC would love to have the Chicago Area Council as an anchor client. We have no reason to think that Boy Scouts will stop wanting to use the property for summer camping, and we can assure that it will be available to them. We are keenly aware that the history of Owasippe is Scout camping, and we have no intention of ending that rich tradition. It is important to note that National Standards do not require that a camp operating a BSA program must be owned by a BSA Council. So long as National Standards are met and adhered to, Scout camping can happen at a non-Council-owned facility. <<<<<<< The Chicago Area Council, should it still exist, will never endorse a Boy Scout Camp on this property and thereby admit to having been mistaken in selling the property in the first place. The OOEC has no plans to run a Boy Scout Camp itself. I hopes someone else will step up and undertake this effort. The OOEC hopes that all those troops that are not and have not been coming to Owasippe while it was council owned will now see the light and support the OOECs efforts. As I have stated there are two issues here, while those of us concerned in preserving our Scout Camp fully support the efforts of the OOEC and others the reverse is not the case. Owasippe will no longer exist after the sale, the land will remain but Owasippe isn't JUST 4765 acres of land. LongHaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jschlich Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Long Haul.....What business is it of yours concerning what I own and where I own it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jschlich Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Long Haul - Before you make further statements I suggest that you review the testimony over the past two weeks, in the 14th Circuit Court of Michigan, of the Chicago SE and President concerning leasing facilities for summer camping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Jschlich, My concern is to determine where your priorities lie and why. As for the testimony in court please remember that our SE and Executive board have been saying different things for the last 7 years much of which turned out to be absolutely the opposite of what they actually have done. The firm assurances that neither Hoover or Owasippe were being considered for sale while at that very time Hoover had already been listed and Owasippe was in the process of being surveyed prior to sale, being only one. If the "Council" is forced to accept a 7 million dollar reduction in their proceeds what makes you think they will still be interested in leasing anything from the OOEC? If the continuation of camping on the disputed 4765 acres was something the board wanted why did they recently remove all proponents of such a move from the Camping Committee? You are singing the same tune our SE sang when he arrived, fresh from selling camps or attempting to sell camps in the other councils he served, "Trust Me". Were do your priorities lie sir? With the camp, the land or the community in which the land exists. Ranked in order of importance of course. LongHaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
local1400 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 You know, on the BSA National website there is a study about Summer Camps and how good they are for the youth, all the POSITIVES of a summer camp experience. And they want to deny the CAC youths of that? JS and LH---I thought you guys were fighting for the same team. BTW-that "study" is 26 PDF pages long. Print it off quick before it disappears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jschlich Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I cetainly can not speak for Long Term but I will speak for myself. Above I have given the reasons I feel it is important for the Owasippe property, and a program of Scout camping and summer staff experience, be continued in that location further into the 21nd Century. While the politics in Chicago Council seems to burden the comments I made in opposition to my reasoning....so be it. I'm all for Owasippe being a place for BSA members (AND MANY MORE YOUTH) to available in the future. I have no economic or other vested interest in the Owasippe property as has been suggested by Long Haul. I, my son and daughter, and thousands of others (both BSA and non-BSA) youth have experienced life molding experiences at Owasippe. It is my PERSONAL desire to have many generations to come have the same experience. There are many hundreds of thousands of acres of residential building sites already in West Michigan. I simply believe that there is a place for preserving almost 5,000 acres for the purpose of having a youth camping experience in the same area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 local1400, Where is the study located on the web site? LH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
local1400 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 LH, on the left of the home screen, click on "Research Reports" and on the next page you will find "Summer Camp Outcomes Study." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jschlich Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Thanks for the info on the Report. I'll pass it on. There's plenty of testimony concerning the value of Summer Camps and year-round outdoor facilities that has been submitted to the court in order to document that value of the land. It's also been submitted that the world of Summer Camps and outdoor facilities is large and growing. Scouting is an extemely small player in the universe of Summer Camps and the shrinking of camp land owned by Councils is contrary to the overall trend of camps and all. Chicago Council is selling the property and this entire trial is centered on the value of the property and a zoning issue. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 mmm-mmm-mmm. Sounds like the start of a Pulitzer Prize documentary if I ever heard one. Where's Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward when you really need them? Are ANY of ther CAC present board former Scouts? and who gave their memories the quick wash and rinse? Does the SE hold a realtors license? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 If I'm not mistaken there are a few a Eagles on the board. As for the Realtors license it was issued by National. LongHaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jschlich Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Friday was the final day of testimony in the matter of the Chicago Area Council vs. Blue Lake Township in the 14th Circuit Court of Michigan. CAC is the Plaintiff. The trial was reduced from around nine issues down to two legal points by Judge William Marietti. The judge dismissed the other Plaintiff claims. The issues in the trial were: 1) Was the zoning of "Forest Recreational - Institutional" for the Owasippe property (one of five camps so zoned in the township)arbitrary and cappricious? and 2) Was such zoning by the township a "taking" of the value of the property? Closing statements will be submitted in writing by 12/21/07. The judgement will follow. There is much that can be written about specific testimony that was given. I am sure there will be plenty of comment about the costs incurred. I attended all but one day of the nine days of trial. When all is said and done this trial comes down to a single property owner disputing a local zoning ordinance. I have no idea what the legal costs have been for the Chicago Council to contest this. The township has asked for, and received, assistance from other units of government to cover their legal costs. The Council already has filed a complaint in Grand Rapids MI Federal Court to carry forth the issues under Federal law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElyriaLeader Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 It's always a sad day when you have to go to court just have someplace to let your sons (and daughters) enjoy the fellowship of scouting in nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now