Goodbye, Owasippe

[Jschlich]

The saga goes on.

 

Shortly before the opening of th 96th year at Owasippe the new President of the Chicago Area Council released an "Open Letter" to the local community around Owasippe.

The letter asks for comment from the community.

 

Getting an update fom the community is always welcome and certainly strikes a conciliatory tone. At the same time the Chicago Council is rabidly pressing forth with long and intense legal depositions of the Township Officials.

 

I guess that is also is a way to collect comments from the local community but, it is a rather distasteful method to use on people you supposedly want to sit down and talk with. I guess it completely escapes comprehension by people from "the big city" that local opinion and information is formed quickly and efficiently in a small town.

 

It has been suggested that removing the litigation gun from the head of the Township (at least a suspension of the suit) would be a practical and progressive step. How those who filed the complaint expect to have dialogue with the defendants with the suit in place is beyond me.

 

I also suggest that reading or listening to the Public Hearing from early 2006 would offer insight froma gathering of about 450 local residents and other interested parties. Nothing really has changed concerning the local opinions about the Owasippe property. The bottom line is NO to any residential development.

 

The saga goes on. The Council continues to spend some very large amounts on litigation while talking conciliation. For some the phrase "follow the money" will reveal where the Council truely wants to have the matter resolved.

 

 

 

 

[local1400]

Wouldn't it be grand if ALL Scouts in the CAC fulfilled requirement no.8 of the Citizenship/Nation MB on this topic? Maybe a few thousand letters form boys to their US Senators may bring some much needed support to the fight. Go down swingin' brothers.

[LongHaul]

local 1400, Actually what would happen if you tried that in CAC would be that you would find yourself out of Scouting all together. Even suggesting that a "youth" should become involved with a political stance in their capacity as Boy Scouts would get you ousted. Several CAC adults have been the recipients of expulsion/suspension letters for doing just that.  One actually for saying that scouts could use their (the scout's) opposition and efforts to stand up to the CAC Board as means to fullfill several requirements for different merit badges.  Leaders were informed that youth were not to attend information sessions or discussion sessions between CAC Board officials and CAC Volunteers and COR/MAL.

LongHaul

[local1400]

Well that is sad LongHaul, because the camp, and its sole reason for existing is for the boys it serves. I know our boys look forward to our council camp each year, and if you took that away from them, we might lose half of our Scouts. (Advancement is not pushed-it is something for the boys to want to do. They want to camp and have fun). It is also a shame to bar kids from a hearing/session that discusses things that directly affect them. Is the CAC afraid that some 16 y/o's and even younger will ask the tough questions that require an honest answer? The kids should absolutely have the right to be heard. As far as overspending on legal defense with money earmarked for other projects, well that may be a case of misappropiation of funds that should be investigated by the states A.G. office. Many folks been to prison who USED to work for Not for Profits, an I heard bad, bad things about Joliet.(This message has been edited by local1400)

[LongHaul]

local 1400,

Take a look at the first page or two in this thread and you'll see that the a group of 11 dedicated volunteers did indeed seek legal recourse. After much effort and several favorable rulings by the courts to the volunteers position National stepped in and declared that if the law suits were not immediatly dropped they (National) would disolve CAC,absorb all asests and break the districts up into the surrounding councils.

LongHaul

[SSScout]

Time has passed.

 

How goes Chicago Area Council and Camp Owasippe?

 

""How high's the water, mama?""

[LongHaul]

The waters are rising and running bright green with the monies being spent by both sides in the battle. Currently this case is in its second week before a judge in the 14th Circuit Court in Muskegon Michigan. The Chicago Area Council attorneys, along with the Scout executive and Council President have been trying to convince the court that the development and creation of 1278 residential sites and the influx of a projected 3604 residents on the 4765acres now comprising the Owasippe Scout Reservation would not negatively impact the community. It is the Councils position that the 4765 acres in dispute are not unique, pristine or in need of being preserved. It is the Councils position that the 9000 youth now being served by CAC do not need a council owned camping facility. The Council plans to appeal any negative ruling by the court.

 

An addendum to this case is the removal of all former Owasippe Staff members from the Council Camping Committee, and the announcement that the Owasippe Staff Association will no longer be involved in the Counselor in Training courses for new staff, which the OSA has produced for the last 27 years.

 

LongHaul

 

[Jschlich]

I suggest that everyone take a deep breath and a step back.

 

I've been in court for 6 of the 7 days of this trial and will be there for #8 as well as whatever follows. I have detailed notes on the various statements by witnesses as well as the comments by the Judge and various lawyers.

 

Both sides are well prepared and have sober and convincing arguments for their points of view. Neither party is doing this "on a lark" and it is certainly nice to see civil interchange and humor being shared between all parties.

 

There is some very important case law being established during this trial in light of the fact that this is a major challenge to the Michigan legislation concerning Master Planning and Zoning that was only established just about a decade ago.

 

My personal perspective is that this is a match of "old thought" vs. "new thought" on many local government levels.

 

Perhaps there is some judgement to be made about how appropriate it is for a not-for-profit organization to be a pioneer in such a case. However, the same can be said about a small rural township taking on the challenge of this case at huge legal cost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ScoutDadof5]

Whatever happened regarding the Execitive officers? Last I saw was that the slate on that (01/27/07) did not pass...something like 20 for and 60 or so against. Pretty decidedly against. And then national reprised those present for not approving. (Sounds a little like kids being admonished for playing with matches...I was a bit surprised on that one.)

 

Anyways (sorry about the rambling), I am guessing that has since been resolved, but would be interested in what happened there. Can anyone provide an update there?

 

I have been following this for a while and am interested as to how that worked out.

[eolesen]

I have only been following this since July... My brother and nephew were with a troop from NWSC that attends Camp Wolverine each year, and I had to drive up there to pick up my nephew for a family event near Grand Rapids.

 

On the way into the camp, just about all of the houses had "Save Owasippe" signs, and after asking, my brother filled me in on the rest.

 

I can understand why CAC might be reluctant to retain ownership of the camp. At 200 miles and about four hours of driving from Chicago, it's not exactly convenient for use as a council camp. But, it's sad to see land of that size being thrown away for a quick buck or two.

[Jschlich]

I'm going to leave comment about the governance issues and election to someone closer to what transpired in Chicago earlier this year. All I really know is that a new Board and all was elected and took their seats in March.

 

****

 

Concerning the overall concerns and background that "eolesen" brought up:

 

The "Save Owasippe" campaign is very wide across the region and was most evidence of the supported of the campaign begins at the residences adjacent to the Owasippe property.

 

The Chicago Council has voted to sell the Owasippe property and the legal actions are all centered around zoning issues. There is no concerted effort to stop the sale of Owasippe...the controversy is about the building of houses or keeping it as camp property, probably under an owner who supports the concept of a youth camp facility on hte property.

 

*****

 

About the comment about distance from Chicago I have to make the following observations from over the last 96 years:

 

In the early part of the 1900's the Chicago Scouts boarded Lake Michigan Steamers and traveled to Owasippe from Chicago.

 

In the mid-1900's the Chicago Scouts rode Pere Marquette Railroad trains from Chicago to Owasippe.

 

Around the 1960's and 70's the Chicago Scouts rode in school bus caravans to Owasippe.

 

Currently Chicago Scouts travel to Owasippe mostly by private vehicle.

 

Considering the improvements in interstate travel time over almost 100 years I have to question if the distance is really the issue or if it is a matter of a change of society.

 

If you can't get to it fast.....is it really worth anything??????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LongHaul]

(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[LongHaul]

First let me reply to eolesen's post. Owasippe is right about 200 miles from Chicago it's about a 3.5 hr drive. Our neighbor to the north, NorthEast Illinois Council has it's Summer camp in Pearson Wisconsin about 285 miles away at 5 hours drive and they are expanding. A foot note is that the current SE from CAC was SE in NEIC and did try to sell their camp but was stopped by the executive board. As for the elections.... After the slate was turned down National sent a representative to "speak" with the voting members. The voting members were told in no uncertain terms that; Our SE would remain until the Owasippe issue has been resolved; that the law suit against the executive board must be dropped; and if the slate was not approved as is, National would seat a slate of it's choosing and would not renew the Charter for Chicago Area Council. The council would then be disband and the area would be divided up between neighboring councils. All assets (Owasippe and the bank account containing the profits from the sale of CAC's only other camp) would revert to National. Fearing the loss of the Council the voting members voted 26 to 17 to approve the slate.

 LongHaul

[nldscout]

Its too bad the voting members caved into nationals threat. They should have stuck to their principles and voted no.

 

Do you really think national would have done what they said? I don't, plus I don't think they had the power to do it.

[LongHaul]

I would like to make something clear once again. There are two separate concerns pertaining to "Owasippe". One concerns 4765 acres of land in Michigan's Manestee National Forest and one concerns a BOY SCOUT CAMP which has been in existence since 1911. When Jschlich speaks about saving Owasippe, and he speaks about the formation of the OOEC (Owasippe Outdoor Education Center)he speaks about 4765 acres of land. Jschlich is a resident of Blue Lake Township in which Owasippe exists. He says that >>"There is no concerted effort to stop the sale of Owasippe...the controversy is about the building of houses or keeping it as camp property, probably under an owner who supports the concept of a youth camp facility on the property."<< He has in the past repeatedly stated that the opposition to the sale has nothing to do with the "governance issues" within the Chicago Area Council. If Jschlich and the OOEC get their way there will no longer be a BOY SCOUT CAMP on the 4765 acres of land serving the SCOUTS of Chicago Area Council. Chicago Area Council may possibly no longer exist after this is finished but even if it did still exists the current board will never authorize a BOY SCOUT CAMP connected with CAC to be sponsored on that land. Owasippe will no longer exist, all we will have is 4765 acres of land that the new owners want to call the OOEC. The fight to prevent the sale and loss of our BOY SCOUT CAMP has not stopped it is only less visible due to the lack of people willing to openly support that effort. Stopping the loss of our camp is a matter of principle for some of us not an effort to protect our own interests. If CAC was going to sell the land to the Gerald Ford Council which owns and operates the camp across the street from Owasippe there are those of us that would be fighting that sale. Jschlich would not be one of that group. I have nothing against Jschlich or the OOEC but this is a BOY SCOUT forum and the loss of Owasippe as a BOY SCOUT camp is far more important than protecting someone's back yard and personal interests.  If CAC were planning to expand and open 5 more camps Jschlich would not be hollering about the flora and fauna or the preservation of the land.  It's not the land they want to save; it's there personal interest that are threatened.

LongHaul