youth on E board and committees

[Proud Eagle]

How many of your councils have youth serving on the council executive board?

 

How about on the the district committee?

 

I know our council by-laws state that there can be two, and no more than two, youth serving on the executive board.

 

Traditionally those seats went to the OA lodge chief, and the Exploring president.

 

However, several years ago there was a major confrontation between the Scout Executive and the former Lodge Chief turned Section Vice Chief. The end result was the Section Vice Chief was forced to keep a very low profile at all lodge and council functions for several years. The Scout Executive also arranged for the new Lodge Chiefs not to be invited to sit on the Executive Board, which lead to no youth serving in a council position for a period of about 4 years.

 

That trend continued until the current Lodge Chief, who was asked to serve as some sort of non-voting member of the camping committee.

 

Obviously when Exploring became a learning for life program, that ended the seat for the Exploring president. The Venturing officer association hasn't yet gotten up and running at the council level, and only in one district, so that seat hasn't been occupied either.

 

Also, I know in some places the OA chapter chiefs and district Venturing presidents are asked to sit on the district committee. I don't think that is being done in my council.

 

So, how about in your council? Do any youth sit on the district committee, the council board, or any of the council committees?

 

Do you think any should?

 

I personally think they should. Youth are open minded. They are also directly involved in the program. Further, youth will, when asked, tell you what they actually think, while many adults often tell people what they want to hear. Also, youth wouldn't be worried so much about political factions or any other such thing, since they would normally only be there for a year.

[Eamonn]

We do have two youth members who are supposed to do something on our Executive Board, but I have never seen them at a meeting. To be very honest the meetings are very dry and while maybe an older Venturer or OA member might get something out of them I fail to see why they would want to attend. It being a dinner meeting at $30.00 a plate doesn't help.

I do not see what real use a couple of youth members are on the board, they can't vote on a lot of the stuff as they are not of legal age.

As for the District Committee,everyone who sits on the committee has a job too do. Maybe in time if the OA Scoutreach mentor program takes a hold there might be something for them to do with the membership committee.

A lot of this youth membership on committees and boards is just window dressing.

I see what we do as serving the youth and having them there would do little if anything to further this.

There is talk of inviting a couple of the youth OA members who are Section Chiefs to sit in on the area meeting. It too is normally as interesting as watching paint dry and there is a lot of items covered that really are not suitable for youth members.Not that it is a secret, but if it were to be retold the wrong way could do harm.

I don't know what you mean by "Political factions"? We are there to serve the units and the youth members. I became District Chairman, after being nominated by the nominating committee, I serve for three years. The goals that we as a district have are nearly all covered in the Quality District requirements. When my term as District Chair is over, it would need me to be nominated onto the Board in order for me to keep my seat on the board. What do you mean by "Political factions"?

Eamonn

[Proud Eagle]

You would be suprised how many youth find the sort of thing that goes on at such meetings to be really interesting. It isn't so much the subject matter, it is the fact that they are trusted enough, and their thoughts valued enough, to be given a seat at the table.

 

In the case of OA officers they see such involvement as a way to serve their fellow Scouts. I would bet most upper level OA types would say that they would rather work with adults to serve others rather than have adults serve them. Obviously they aren't ready for all issues, but for many they are. Also, an OA officer would see serving on a committee or a board as a chance to serve the youth that elected them by giving those youth a voice in what goes on beyond the unit level. After all, a couple of youth speaking their mind certainly can't do much harm with all those adults around. Plus, the youth may actually have a perspective that none of the adults do.

 

Now, you mention you don't see a youth on the district committee as contributing much. OA Scoutreach mentoring is one area that the chapter chief could work with the district committee on. Also, the Webelos to Scout tranisition is another area that OA could contribute to. OA can also provide a service corps for district events, serve as a driving force behind a district level service project, and serve as an extra communications tool for the district to both relay information, and recieve feedback from the units. Also, camping promotion is a key goal for OA, and I would certainly think it would be for the district as well. In fact, most of the information the OA produces on camp promotions suggests coordinating with the district or council to produce the best results.

 

In the OA, the youth make the decisions, the adults are there to provide advice and support. So, if the district wants something out of OA, or if OA wants something out of the district, then it would actually be best if the proper youth officer were used.

 

Also, it helps both the individual youth officer, and the entire organization they represent feel as if they are valued members of the Scouting team if they are given a seat at the table. Even if they never come to meetings, knowing they are invited would mean something.

 

Oh, one further reason for including youth OA officers. Rumor control. OA is the ultimate grapevine, or back fence network. Information spreads at an incredible pace. Unfortunately, many of those spreading information don't have the truth. With a youth on the board or committee, that is someone that can use the truth to answer rumor.

 

Just as a closing thought on the value of including youth, consider what in my very, very, messed up council the abilities the also messed up OA lodge or chapter could bring to the table (and will be more willing to commit if their elected leader, not just the adviser, has a seat at that table).

The lodge does all of the following:

 

We contact every troop and team every year and offer camp promotions and OA elections.

 

Most units are visited for a promotion, election, or both.

 

At least one member of most units is active, therby providing a link to that unit.

 

When the wood badge coarse was short $500, and couldn't get it from council, the only source for it was to ask the Lodge Executive Committee to make a donation.

 

For a significant number of units, the only visit from someone that in any way represents Scouting beyond the unit level is by the OA election and promotion team.

 

For a significant number of units, the only Scouting meeting beyond the unit level that either the Scouts or Scouters participate in is the OA chapter or lodge meetings.

 

This year every registered adult in the council recieved two mailings. One from the Souther Region explaining the council's difficulties, and the other inviting them to attend a leadership training conference being hosted by the OA lodge.

 

We have the best communication network in the council, it includes regular newsletters, special mailings, email, and an informative and easy to navigate website. The council has a hard to navigate, out of date site, and only sends email newsletters, no written ones.

 

The lodge is offering youth protection, new leader essentials, leave no trace, mentoring, meeting running, Cub Scout Leader, Webelos leader, SM/ASM, and other trainings. For many leaders, this will be the only training opportunity available to them this year. Why are we conducting a training conference that is well outside our normal list of activities, and certainly not our responsibility? Because if we don't, no one else will, and we have the ability to get it done.

 

Now there are alot of things OA can't do. There are also many OA lodges and chapters that face challenges and have problems of their own to deal with. Perhaps if the council and district help they OA when they can, and the OA helps them when it can, we will all be better off in the end. We are, after all, one big team, even when we don't see eye to eye on everything.

 

So maybe the question shouldn't be what will the youth gain from the experience, but what can we all work together to accomplish. After all, both OA and Venturing are youth led, so if you want something from them, it may be a good idea to have the youth leading them as part of the team.

 

 

 

Political Factions

 

Most bodies that involve debate, elections, voting, and decision making become political in some way.

 

In the case of the council Executive Board, and the council as a whole, it is extremely political. I don't mean Republican or Democrat, or Liberal or Conservative.

 

I mean East v West, and pro-former SE and anti former SE. You see, the Audobon council merged with the Four Rivers council in 1994. Neither council's leadership, nor the membership, were really happy about, or comfortable with, the merger. The division was there from the start. The Four Rivers people insisted their camp stay open and recieve most of the resources. The Audubon people did the same for their camp. In the end both stayed open, but the Four Rivers camp (the wester half of the council) became the Boy Scout resident camp and recieved almost all the future investments. Then there was the SE. The Audobon SE became SE of the merged council. He ruffled many feathers during and after the merger. However, eventually, the program began to come apart at the seems, fund raising started to slide, people lost faith, etc, etc, etc, Yet, he failed to improve things. In many cases he personally caused the problems by creating personal conflict with volunteers. So, there became in both parts of the council a group that supported the SE, and a group that didn't like him. The group that supported him always seemed to win, but even within this group east and west didn't agree on much. So, here we are 10 years after the merger. Many people in the west still think of Manchester as THEIR camp, while people in the east think of Wildcat Hollow as THEIR camp. There is a core group that cares more about the program than the location, but they are a minority of those that are active at the district and council levels. Now that the former SE is gone, the faction against him is having a major "I told you so" case, while the faction that supported him is more or less falling apart, and according to some, since they have no SE to rally around, they are going back to the east-west fight.

 

However, I should note things are actually better now that the SE is gone. Mostly this is due to the help of the fine people at the Southern Region. Also, many of those who had faded away because of the old SE are returning to the program. Donors who didn't trust the SE are considering giving again.

 

 

[Eamonn]

Working with youth members is not the problem. Many of us having been doing this for a number of years. Some of us are vain enough to go so far as to think that we are fairly good at it.

If the District Committee, decides that we need to enlist the help of the OA or a Venture Crew, I have no problem asking the Chair to go and visit them. Just as we don't invite every person who does something for the District to sit on the District Committee. I don't see the need to invite youth members onto the committee. The whatever Chair. works with these guys and reports back to the committee.

As for a couple of youth speaking their minds. I must attend different meetings than the ones that you do. We meet once a month for 90 minutes. There are reports on what has been accomplished, goals are set. The Committee is made up of people who will get the job done. The Agenda is set by myself and the DE, we focus on reaching goals. Near the end of the meeting we have a DE Minute, something like a Scoutmasters minute and we have a Pride and Soft Spots, where I get to state how I see we are doing. We don't have the time or the need for people speaking their minds. We do at times look at such things as unpaid pledges, I do not want youth members in on that sort of discussion.

We have had events that have ended up in the red. At times the comments about the person who allowed this to happen are very blunt. Again not for the ears of our youth members.

I have never seen a diagram from National that shows youth members on a district committee.

We do invite SPL's to attend certain Round-table meetings and we have a Venturing RT where youth members are a vital part. If anything comes out of these meetings it is presented to the District Commissioner, who brings it to the key3 and can make it part of the Commissioners report at the District Meeting. The DE can bring it to a staff meeting and I can bring it to a Executive Board meeting.

My Son is the AVC in our Lodge,while they do have an outstanding web site and do a good job with communications. From what I see it is very much one way. Sure we have a handful of youth members who are officers in the Lodge and they are working their hearts out. The truth is that most youth members see the OA and their involvement as something that happens at camp and on OA weekends. The older Scouts are pushed for time due to school activities, social activities and troop activities. In most of the troops that I see the OA Rep. position is not in any way living up to expectations. While I am not that active in the Lodge I have noticed that all the youth officers are the son's of very active Scouter's.

While I am very happy with nearly all of those who sit on our District Committee,I am 100% happy and sure that these people are trustworthy. We don't need the example of youth members to show us that gossip and rumor can do untold harm. While it would be unfair of me to say that all OA members don't understand how things work. I have seen people who ought to know better engage tongue before brain. For example I attended the August OA weekend, mainly because I knew that OJ was receiving Vigil Honor. We I'm sad to say have one District that is fast becoming a rebel outfit. A member of this District and an ex-Lodge Adviser approached me and the group of youth members and started telling me that he didn't want to hear anything more about this FOS #$%! He went on to say that he had been present when a local business man had presented the Scout Executive with a check for $110,000.And that no one ever tells the volunteers about this. The real facts are that this money was from a golf outing and that 80% of the proceeds from this annual event go into the endowment fund. He then walked away leaving me to explain to these young Lads, what an endowment fund is, why we have one and answer a lot of questions about how the money for the council is managed. It is hard to explain to a 14 or 15 year that yes we have just got over $100k, but no we can't spend it on the new Nature building.

While things in your Council may have been a little bumpy. I am pleased to say that while we have had bumps in the road I have never seen political factions. About five years back we did fire our Scout Executive. If anything this bonded the board members more than anything. We knew that we were being watched, we knew that we had to make Quality Council. The search committee that interviewed and reported back when they thought that they had found the right guy, was made up from a good cross section of the board. We knew that we had to do everything that we could to support the new Scout Executive. We had discussed at Board meetings what strengths in what areas the person that we hired would have to have. We as a Board seen the need to bring more money into the Council, we wanted a guy who was good at raising money.

The Board is made up from community minded people. It is fair to say that there are not as many program people on the board as there used to be. We have a lot more business people, people who are CEO's of big corporations, people who are experts in their fields. Many of these people are new to Scouting. They do a great job for the Council. Some of us "Program Types" have our own little thing that we think is more important than anything else. Mine would be Training. I would love to see us spend a lot more on training. Other people have their own pet project. We all know that we are not going to win every battle. Sure a new dining hall at camp would be nice. Sure a Cub Scout World would do wonders for the Cub Camping numbers. It would be nice to find a way of subsidizing the cost of Jamborees. But we just can't do it all at once.

We have about 30 -40 people turn out for our meetings. I know all of them. I don't dislike any of them. After the meeting there are normally about half of us who stop for a spot of tea!! Every now and then someone will ask "Why didn't you support me on such and such?" It's a fact of life that rarely if ever are we going to make everyone happy at the same time. Each and every person at that meeting is trying to get what he or she sees or thinks is the best thing for the youth that we serve.

The normal Boy Scout or Cub Scout has no idea that there even is a board. Most unit leaders know that there is one but don't know or care who sits on it. They don't have to know or care,they are busy delivering the program to the youth in the unit. Sure they see the new buildings at camp. Some really like them, some are less than enthusiastic. They know little about the funding of these buildings or the hours that went in when the project went over budget. They see the DE at the R/T meeting they don't know that if a line of credit hadn't been approved by the board that the DE wouldn't have got paid last month.

We I'm thankful to say don't have political factions, we have a group of people doing what they can to support the youth in our area and bring in as many more as can be recruited.

Eamonn

[mdutch]

Eamonn,

While I usually find myself in agrement with you, I must, on this issue, disagree. You said,"Each and every person at that meeting is trying to get what he or she sees or thinks is the best thing for the youth that we serve". But, wouldn't it be best to have the youth tell you what they want, rather than you having to guess? When the youth go to a council or district event, most of them have suggestions for how to make it better. We may mention it to our SM, but none of it ever gets heard by anyone of importance. You mentioned that the communication in the OA is mostly one way, but isn't that also true with the rest of the council (with regard to youth). We may get told (threw our Scoutmasters) what new ideas are brought up, but we never have a chance to comment. The council has no way of getting imput from the youth. Shouldn't you value the imput of the youth you serve?

 

 

[Eamonn]

Meamemg,

First thanks for the kind words.

I agree that we do need to do a better job of listening to what our youth members are saying. My problem is that I don't think that the District Committee Meeting or the Executive Board meeting is the place.

I really don't see that having a couple of youth members sitting in on a meeting is anything more than window dressing.

While I hate to seem like I'm blowing my own trumpet but I think we have made a lot of progress by having our SPL's come to Roundtable. The original reason for inviting them was to find a way of improving District Camporees. It worked,we seen attendance go through the roof. We started by having them take over the camp fire and the Scout's Own. We have had a really great Camporee where the Venture Crews planned the theme (Buckskin Games) They were in charge of the activities, the SPL's planned the Campfire and Scout's Own and the District Activity Committee worked with them on promotion and lunch. We have had the Council High Adventure Committee send a guy in to talk about upcoming Council trips to Philmont and Sea Base. The Council Training Committee have sent people in to promote JLTC.

We have used the contact list to ask the SPL's to help with recruitment. While I have no way of proving it, I think that the SPL's have helped improve attendance at R/T, they are asking the SM for a ride.

All in all it is working. Still we are walking a very fine line, I do not want the District to start getting in the way of the troops program.

The SPL's were there when the Council Key3 came to do the Fireside Chat, they asked questions about camp and council activities.

We have not as yet had 100% turn out, but are in about the 75% range, I think we are really hearing what they are saying. They are seeing real results and know that we will follow up. In some ways it has been an eye opener for the Scoutmasters. Or I should say some of the Scoutmasters,we can't make troops do anything. We are setting the example by allowing these Lads the opportunity to come up with ideas that will turn out to be things that will activities that they want to do and will be the leaders of.

At almost every R/T all the District Key3 are there, after the meeting we spend a few minutes going over what happened.

Thanks to them being at these meetings we have made improvements in advancement, we now have a fixed time and place foe Eagle Scout BOR's and the Merit Badge list can be E-mailed to any Scout who contacts the Dean of Merit Badges. The Scouts are there for the dreaded announcements, so they are not only informed but have the opportunity to ask questions.

When you look at the agendas of District and Board meetings program is not the main item.

All the areas that make up program: Camping, Advancement,Training, Activities. Have their own committee and Chairman. In our Council these committees are made up of the District Chairs for that specific area.These committees meet a few times a year and report to the vice-president for program. He reports to the Executive Board. Something which is a very big deal to the people involved in it becomes one line in his report. At the District meeting, we do spend a little more time on program, but again it is a very small part of what we do. The program is delivered by the units.

Sure everyone has an opinion about just about everything. I'm sure if we were to ask our Scouts about, Finances, Commissioner Service and Membership, there would be some good ideas, the same would be true if we asked Cub Scout parents, Boy Scout parents, Crew Members and just about any other group. Most Lads of Scout age would find this all very boring.Heck most of the adults find it very boring!! It is however very necessary.

I am all for us doing everything we can to make Scouts and Scouting a fun and adventurous activity for our Scouts. I'm painfully aware that there is about a 35 year age gap between them and myself. I used to think that if I ever heard "Check Your Resources!!" Again I would go insane. I'm starting to feel the same way about "Feedback Is A Gift." Of course both are very true. I just think that we need to find the right time and place. I don't think a couple of token empty seats is the way to go about it.

Eamonn.

 

[mdutch]

You are probably right that most youth aren't interested in finances, I am probably unique in that aspect. (although it is a good skill to have, and isn't one of the points of scouting to prepare us for the future?) You did, however, make me remember an idea a had a while back, that I was hoping I could get the forums opinoin on. SPL Roundtables. I roundtable meeting for the SPL's, just as we have them for the adult leaders. It seems, from your post, that your council has implimented them. Any ideas on how effective, or practical, this would be?

[Bob White]

The OA Lodge Chief sits on our executive board. As far as input from youth, is it believed by some that the only way to have input and an understanding of what youth want or need is to youth on the committee?

 

I would think that in many councils, as in ours, these committees are made of people with successful unit leadership background who have a good understanding of both youth and the scouting program.

 

These youth that are to be on the committees are they the same youth that many posters claim are too busy to attend unit events, leadership meetings, OA meetings and the like?

 

Cub Scouting is a part of the progran as well. Is it the belief of some that a cub scout has the maturity and the tools to sit through a council executive committee and have the slightest grasp on some of any of the things being discussed. Can the committee not make good decisions without that input?

 

 

[Proud Eagle]

I am not suggesting it would be a good idea to invite every youth to the district committee or executive board meetings.

 

That would likely be a disaster.

 

I can't see any benefit to either the Cub Scout or the meeting in having them attend either. I am sure there is some special case once in a blue moon that this would be a good idea, but generally I would say not.

 

However, what I am talking about, is having perhaps one youth from the Venturing program and one youth from the Boy Scout program be invited to attend. The logical choice would be the Order of the Arrow chief (chapter chief for District Committee, lodge chief for council board), and the President of the Venturing officer association. These are individuals that are obviously making time to be involved in Scouting beyond the unit level, and have an interest in the activities beyond the unit level.

 

Obviously if such an individual were invited to be a member of the committee or board, or at least invited to attend meetings, they would not be expected to comment on every subject, but like the chairmen of the individual committees, they would be expected to offer their thoughts (and the collective consensus of the organizations they represent) when some matter directly relating to them is discussed.

 

The lodge chief would probably like to hear about the new plan to promote camping in the council, since that is one of the goals of the lodge he represents.

 

On the other hand, the Venturing officer association president probably won't be very interested in a the new Tiger Cub recruitment program and the special fund drive planned to pay for it.

 

Considering that there are national officers in the OA, and a national Venturing cabinet, that would indicate that at least some youth are very interested in, and capable of dealing with, issues that relate to Scouting beyond the unit level.

 

I think that a limited involvement on the council executive board for the OA lodge chief and the council Venturing officer association president would be entirely appropriate.

 

Similarly, limited involvement by the chapter chief and district Venturing president would be appropriate at the district committee level.

 

Are these things necessary? No, obviously not. If it were necessary, BSA would make these people automatic members of the committee or board.

 

Would it be nice to extend the invitations to attend these meetings, even if it is purely symbolic? I think that yes, it would be.

 

Let me provide a real world example supporting my thinking. The lodge vice chief when I was lodge chief went on to be elected lodge chief. Then he was elected Section Chief. Then he was selected as one of the conference vice chiefs for NOAC 2004. His job as a CVC required such things as working with representatives of various major manufacturers such as Coleman, working with the conference committee, coordinating with host staff, and any number of other things. In fact, there were even some jokes about representatives of various companies that called him at home thinking his parents were his office staff. All this was being done by someone that was at the time still in high school. Now, I would certainly think that someone like that has the maturity to sit on the council executive board, or district committee. I would also think that the board or committee could probably gain at least a little something by having someone like that as one of its members.