CO's

[mdutch]

Is a council (or a district) allowed to charter a unit?

 

[nldscout]

Well all the staff at our Camps are members of a venturing crew that is chartered to the camp, so I would have to say yes.

 

 

[Proud Eagle]

I had always heard that they could not.

 

Yet our camp also charters a Venturing Crew. This isn't just the staff being organized as a crew, there is an actual Crew Charter hanging on the camp office wall naming the camp as the charter organization. I asked one of the pros that worked on staff about this, and he said the camp isn't really the same as the council, so they can do it.

 

This was one of many things I thought were a bit odd about the camp and its staff crew...

[Bob White]

The BSA's Congressional Charter prohibits the BSA from operating a unit. What usually happens is adult members of the camp staff form an ad hoc unit committee to charter the crew for camp staff.

[mdutch]

So how do you think it would work if my OA Chapter wanted to have a Crew?(This message has been edited by meamemg)

[Bob White]

I doubt that the council would allow you to expose yourselves or them to the liability.

 

 

 

 

 

[Proud Eagle]

So, Bob, what should we do if our council actually is chartering a unit to its camp?

 

In my council, I know, with a relatively high degree of certainty (I would put it at 90% certainty), that is exactly what has been done for years. The unit has even been recieving quality unit even though it isn't even chartered for the whole year.

 

Venturing Crew 207 in Council 200, is chartered to Camp Roy C. Manchester, which is a facility partially owned by the counci, and partially leased from TVA, and operated by the council.

 

It isn't chartered to the staff association or any such other thing. It is chartered to the camp, which was a council operated facility carrying out a council operated BSA resident camp program and other activities.

 

To make matters worse, all aspects of the program in our council are now being operated by the BSA itself, through the Southern Region. So, now in essence the council is chartering a unit to itself to provide a unit for the staff of a camp whose program is the direct responsibility of the BSA due to a legaly binding subcontracter relationship entered into by the council and the BSA.

 

That is about a half step away from BSA issuing a charter to itself.

 

Yikes, what a mess.(This message has been edited by Proud Eagle)

[Bob White]

According to your profile you are an assistant scoutmaster. I don't see how this affects you, or the unit you serve, or the charter organization you belong to, or how it affects the Troop's program in any way.

 

How do you see this as problem for you? If you were a Council board member you might have reason for concern. But as an ASM, what do you care how long another unit is chartered for, or whether or not it achieves Quality Unit Award?

 

[Proud Eagle]

I served on the camp staff this summer and will likely do so again. I could even wind up in a leadership role at the camp in the future.

 

Since all members of the staff at the camp are required to register in said crew, and since the camp leaders are made the leaders of the crew, it could at least be of interest to me.

[dan]

I would bet if you looked at the charter it would read.

 

CO = Friends of Camp Roy C. Manchester

 

 

[Proud Eagle]

I have looked at the charter, and I recall that it said "Camp Roy C. Manchester".

 

There was no "friends of" or "staff association of" or any other such thing. Now I am sure if anyone made an issue of it, they would claim that was the case, but it is not.

[Bob White]

"Since all members of the staff at the camp are required to register in said crew, and since the camp leaders are made the leaders of the crew, it could at least be of interest to me."

 

Why?

 

If the council accepted the charter what difference does it make to you or anyone else?

 

You might be curious, but curiosity does mandate that you get an explanation.

 

How does the fact thet they hold a charter affect you in any way?

 

 

 

[mdutch]

Bob White said

 

I doubt that the council would allow you to expose yourselves or them to the liability.

What do you mean by this? That they wouldn't let us start one? If so, you are probably incorrect, since the District Direct and Commisioner came to us to encourage us to do this(This message has been edited by meamemg)

[Proud Eagle]

I don't know where this idea of OA lodges and chapters chartering Venturing Crews has come from. Frankly it is nuts. I think it has even come up on here a few times before.

 

I know I have heard about it in other places.

 

There was a report that the Venturing division was handing out information on how OA lodges could start crews back at the 2002 NOAC. I don't know if they actually did, but there was certainly talk of it going on at the time.

 

Apparently some people seem to think that OA lodges and chapters are seperate entities, rather than being a integral part of the councils they serve. I could understand someone working only with Venturing getting that idea, however, it doesn't make any sense that a council would ever allow it. Yet, this is not the first story of a council pushing this idea that I have heard either.

 

Oh well.

 

Oh, and Bob, as to why I want to know, yes it is largely academic, however there are some other reasons I would be interested to know about it. One of those being I think forcing the staff to become a Crew is stupid. It is a Boy Scout camp. We had easily 60, maybe 100 troops at camp last summer. We had one Venturing Crew and one Sea Scout Ship, not counting the staff. We also had a co-ed Troop from the Czech Republic. Now I understand they can hire 14 year old girls with no other involvement in Scouting if they have a Crew, but I don't much care for making everyone else pretend to be Venturers for the summer. Most of the rest of the staff didn't care for it either, but no one thought it was worth raising a fuss about. However, if some sort of reasonable argument could be presented detailing why there should not be a unit chartered to the camp, that would likely hold up reasonably well.

 

Also, if I am going to return on staff, that would mean I would have to register as either a Crew Committee member or an Associate Adviser. Now, if by some chance something severly bad were to happen at camp, and there were any legal unpleasantries, I don't much like the idea that the charter for that unit is in any way questionable.

 

Plus, being an adult leader in a unit that doesn't even make an attempt to deliver the program to its members isn't something I particularly like the idea of either.

[Eamonn]

Having got it wrong on the other thread about Councils and chartering - You would think that I would run a mile before trying it again.

But here I go!!

I have never seen a charter that was for less than a year. I have seen them for 18 months, but never less than a year. Maybe some wise person could let me know if this is true or not?

We did hear talk about the camp staff forming a crew. Nothing ever came of it.

One advantage that I can see is that all the camp staff would be members of the BSA. This is a good thing. I'm sure that it would help with some insurance issues and do away with some gray areas.

For example if the Camp staff do an activity after camp to celebrate a great summer, they are not working or being paid, so the BSA insurance would cover them.

It also does away with the idea that they know nothing because they are not BSA members.

The Council is not the chartering organization, if it were one of the council key3 would have to be the executive officer. I don't see that happening.

As most of the camp staff are normally already registered in a home unit, I don't think this would do much for membership. It might boost the Venturing total a tiny little bit.

I might have a problem with the quality of the program that is offered, but I might have a problem with any unit which might be chartered by any other CO!!

I fail to see how the council or the camp or anyone else can make a youth member who is already registered in his or her unit join this crew. It just don't work that way.

The same would go for people taking leadership positions. The camp /council can't make you become a leader of a unit. It don't work that way either.

I think that when this was started it was crafted in such a way that the Council is not the CO.

If too many people are worried or upset, the charter will more than lightly run out over the summer and all these people who are worried or upset can go to bed and sleep the sleep of the righteous -ZZzzzz

Eamonn