Venture Patrol in the Troop.

[bt01]

An idea has been thrown out to the Troop Committee about forming a Venture Patrol in the Troop. The idea is to keep the older Scouts active. Does anybody else have such an arrangement in their troop? If so, what are the guidelines and regulations for them?

 

Some of these older boys were board stiff with the regular meetings, and were disrupting more than they were helping. Are there any set guideline/policy before they started. Your input is appreciated

 

[AdvanceOn]

This link is directly to BSA. Maybe it will help you get started.

 

http://www.scouting.org

 

Once at this site go to Boy Scouts then Activites, then Activities for older boys.

 

 

[Bob White]

I believe that you both might be confusing some terms here.

 

There is a Venture Patrol and then there is Venturing. Two different things.

 

A Venture patrol is just a patrol of older scouts within a troop. They do more things that involve high adventure than the regular or new scout patrols. They were the same uniform and have the same advancement program as the rest of the troop. A scout in a venture patrol ages out on his 18th birthday like any other Boy Scout. Forming a venture patrol does not require committee action. It is a basic element of troop operation recommended by the BSA.

 

Venturing involves a Venture Crew, which is a totally separate unit from a troop and holds its own charter with a chartering organization. An organization that currently charters a troop can choose to also charter a Venturing program, or a business or organization that has no previous scouting connection can choose to charter a Venturing program.

 

Venturing has its own uniform and it own unique advancement program. It uses diffent methods than troop scouting, has it's own values and program activities. It is a co-ed program and a member ages out on their 21st birthday.

 

So btps, is your committee discussing a venture patrol or a Venturing crew, or are they perhaps confused about the difference as well?

 

Once you are sure which they mean we can provide you with more information.

 

Bob White

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Tks, BW for clearing up the difference between Venture Patrol and Venturing. Well ast least I was confused about it. Our older boys are bored with the program and started to kick the idea around of a Venture Patrol however our Charter Rep is against it "It takes away from the main program"

[Bob White]

actually venture patrols in troops is the program.

1-yr in New Scout Patrol to learn the basics, 2-yrs in a Regular Patrol to practice the skills and mature, then spend the remaining time in Regular or Venture Patrol. Venture patrol should be older boys with strong skills and desire for high adventure.

 

This is a standard troop organization and should not require the approval of committee or COR to do. Is permission required to form any other patrol?

 

Bob White

 

 

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

I have a saying that our district is starting to repeat. If you cant run a program without the Venture Patrol, what makes you think you can run one with a Venture Patrol? Please dont misunderstand, Im not a glass half-empty guy, but I believe that the proposed Troop Venture Patrol by National is the most destructive part of a troop program in the BSA because it is applied as a fix to a problem instead of an additional opportunity to enhance program. After a few years working with other troops, our district Venturing Chairman now agrees.

 

Btps, you need to understand that a Troop structure is naturally designed for the scouts to grow with the maturity of the program and to become the leaders and role models of the Troop. Where Troops seem to fail is when the Troop program doesnt mature with the older boys and they become trapped in an immature program that becomes boring and belittling. When adults see teenagers dreading program, they automatically think the boys have outgrown the Troop activities and younger scouts. They create a Venture Patrol with the idea the raised excitement and risk of the activities will keep the older guys in the troop. But! rappelling is only fun so many times. These Troops find later that not only are the guys still bored standing around the meetings, but now the junior leadership is less mature and requires more adult intervention. The older scout role models arent around anymore the younger scouts to learn from and when they are, their attitudes are not what we want the younger scouts to see. The maturity of the whole troop falls two years and the adults have to take over more and more. I have watched this scenario played over and over.

 

There is nothing wrong with a Venturing Patrol. But let me suggest a few other ideas to get your older boy program aligned.

 

Keep you older scouts in patrols as long as you can. Every time a scout has to jump to a new patrol, he automatically is the low man on the pole and has to start over earning his way to leader. And Role modeling is at least 80 to 90% of boy growth. If you take the role models out of the patrols, you will see your leadership become less mature and younger. You will also see the adults have to get more involve to maintain any quality in you program. I found cooking is a great measuring stick here. Watch the quality of the food of your patrols. IF they get worse, I am willing to bet the older scouts arent around.

 

Dont set any age requirements in your activities. Instead set maturity and experience requirements. BSA says you can have Venture Patrol at 13, but we have to ask Bob White where that number came from. Why would you keep a 12-year-old bike racer out of a 100 mile biking trek when he is probably the most qualified scout to do it. Allow any scout after the first year to join any Venture Crew he can qualify for, but only for the length of time that crew exists. Once the trek is over, you go back to your regular Patrol. I know what your thinking, most scouts will jump into Venture Treks as soon as they can, but you will find that maturity and experience will limit most scouts until they are 13 or 14 in most cases. And whats wrong with a 12 year old crew that organizes for a couple of months to plan a trip to Six Flags. It's pretty cool to watch.

 

Now for you older scout program. Learn these two sayings. ""Your job in this troop is to put the adults out of a job". And, "dont do for a scout anything he can learn to do himself". Boys naturally are attracted to personal challenges. It's true and adults have a hard time thinking boys can do adults jobs. Experience proves that a 16-year-old boy is pretty much a man and can do anything an adult is willing to give up. Push you older scouts into mature responsibilities. There is no reason why an older scout cant work with the advancement chairman, or Planning Chairman or even the Troop Treasure. Create apprentice positions. Scouts do most of our Web Site. Why shouldnt a scout who has been in the troop for several years advise all the Cheer masters, grub masters, or Quarter masters. Can an adult really do it better? Also, allow the older scouts to be adults. Talk to them like adults, treat them like adults and hold them accountable to the maturity of adults. IF you see a new scout running barefoot in camp right in front of the 16 JASM, dont jump on the new scout, hold the JASM accountable to his responsibility.

 

Let the older scouts act like older scouts. We have several older scouts with jobs. They cant make a whole meeting, but they will help do what they can if they adults allow. We had several JASMs who could only make the first 30 minutes of the meeting. So we created a plan where they did their job before the meeting or in the first 30 minutes.

 

I can give more suggestions as this thread moves along, but my point is this, creating a Venture Patrol to solve your bord older scout problem will not fix your problem. Fix your problem first by maturing your program so the older Scouts feel challenged in your Troop mentally and physically. Dont take them away from the younger scouts because you automatically lower the quality of the whole program. Let the younger scout watch the older scouts. Listen to you older scouts, they complain about the program of 12 year olds, so dont make them do 12-year-old program. Make them teach, change it, advance it, but dont make them repeat it. One example is having your older scout plan a Trooporee. They invite three other troops to do a mini-camporee all planned and ran by your older scouts. They will learn planning and leadership skills like you wouldnt believe from this experience. Your troop will mature and the other troops will really enjoy the program. Once your older scouts are feeling challenged, then create temporary Venture Patrols designed for additional activities. Use the Venture Patrol to plan and ready the scout for the activity like going to Philmont, then kill it after the activity is over and start another one. You might have as many as five Venture Patrols running at the same time for activities and the next year only one. If the Venture Patrols take to many scouts from the regular patrols, then have them meet separately because patrol method is the highest priority for scout growth, not jumping into different patrols. Make it fun, make it work, but dont take away from the methods.

 

I know that the BSA is only trying to help Troops mature with Venture Patrols, but in most cases, Ive seen them planned incorrectly and actually forcing the troop to become more dependent on adults. I wish National would instead teach adults to encourage how to grow into a more mature program. As I said before, if you dont have a good older scout program before a Venture Patrol, why do you think it will be better after? Boys need mental and physical challenges. Learn and practice giving them those challenges. Give them the responsibilities of adults. It works very well. I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

 

 

[silver-shark]

Barry

 

I agree with most of what you said. The thing being that since we started a Venture Patrol within the troop about 6 months ago, we haven't lost any more older scouts.

 

The older scouts are now in charge of planning meetings, and training the younger ones during the skills portion of the troop meeting. We tell them that with priveledge comes responsibility. Soon they will be training the PLs of the Regular Patrols how to plan meetings. At that point each patrol will plan 3 months of program per year.

 

They have been able to look at their higher adventure type activities, maybe planning 4 per year as the program advises, and that is the key as I see it. using the Varsity/Venture Program Features for them along with the regular Troop Program Features.

 

All in all, it seems to be working for us so far, but we insist that the boys continue to give back to the troop, and it beats the alternative of losing them to a Venturing Crew and losing their leadership.

[OldGreyEagle]

Barry, I love your enthusiasm for the scouting program, I wish you were in my troop, I need help to keep myself on the "Boy Run Troop" track at times and you show a lot of common sense in your posts.

 

BUT

 

and you had to know that was comming. As Bob White has pointed out, there are Venture Patrols and there are Venturing Crews. A Venturing Crew is a BSA unit sepatate entirely of Boy Scouts. A Crew may be all male, all female or Coed. A Crew member must be 14 years old and out of 8th grade A Venture Patrol is composed of experienced scouts within a Boy Scout Troop. I have no idea why BSA started the concept of Venture Patrols and them very quickly after started the Venturing program. It has led to a lot of confusion. Addiong to the mix is the terminology of BSA. If you go to Philmont, Sea Base or Boundry Waters, your group is called a crew no matter what program you are in. I can see Troops adopting this vocabulary, and calling groups going on high adventure trips crews just like they do at Philmont, Boundary waters, etc. So, for claity sake, a Venture Patrol is part of a Boy Scout Troop, a Venturing Crew is an independent unit separate from a troop and a Trek Crew can be just about anybody on the Trekand I cant see how to make it any more confusing, obviously BSA didnt either

 

I know this is all semantics and while I would not ever want to make an anti-semantical remark, why couldnt they have called the Venturing Program The Exploring Program... Wait that wouldnt work either what about Voyageurs, like they do in Canada.

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Bob White]

The difference is in the social needs and characteristics of teens compared to preteens.

 

As the scouts age they want to spend more time with people in their same age group. It is a natural bonding phase that you might as well accept and work with to your advantage thanto try to ignore or fight against.

 

The venture patrol has existed for several years and has gone through a number of name changes (Leadership Corps comes immediatly to mind). It is not a new concept and works extremely well when done correctly. But the surest way to insure that it doesn't work is to not use it.

 

Bob White

[bt01]

Bob White,

 

I did not confuse the terms , I went to the troop committie to discuss forming a Venture Patrol to keep the "older" boys active. The troop is having problems in keeping the older boys active in the troop. I would not go to them to discusss forming a Venture Crew.

 

BT

[Bob White]

Just checking btps.

OK, why do you need committee approval to follow the troop organization outimned in the Scoout Handbook, SM Hadbook, SPL HAndbook and PL HAndbook? Do you seek permission to teach first-aid or knot tying, or to hold elections?

The role of the troop committee is to provide suppot to the troop program not to determine troop program.

 

That being said, I highly recommend organizing a venture patrol if you feel you have enough scouts with that interest and a qualified ASM to oversee the patrol and help them to become more independent in thier planning and participation in activities.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[bt01]

You are right about the venture patrol being around for years and going through servail name changes. I am going to show my age, I was in a Leadership Corp in a Troop in Pelham, NY. I not going to bring this up with the name changes if I have to. One of the goals is keeping the older kids active.

 

I have brought it up with the Troop Committee, and it is going to take some work. My first impressions are that they do not what to do it. All of them have had there sons in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts but never heard about the Venture Patrol. There concern was what the program was going to be. My reply that the scouts are going to run this patrol and as the committee we are going to support it.

 

[bt01]

Brian

 

Why do I need the committee approval???? First, the scouts in this troop are not going to think about. They the scouts like some of the adults (scoutmasters) in this troop will not try this program. I gave handouts about this program from the scout service center and national and this was the first time they heard about it. Since this is in the planning stage, the program is going to be open. Since the troop really is not a camping /hiking Troop it may be something other than that. I started this week so it could be talked up with the scouts. If it flies, then we have a program,.

[bt01]

Bob White,

What do you mean by qualified ASM to oversee the patrol? If you mean if the ASM has Scoutmaster Fundamentals and Wood badge, then I can have my title changed. If they do hiking/camping (Pipe dream), I believe I am qualified. I have a list of things that I have done and helped other people do but that is a different subject.

 

[Eagledad]

>>As Bob White has pointed out, there are Venture Patrols and there are Venturing Crews. A Venturing Crew is a BSA unit separate entirely of Boy Scouts. A Crew may be all male, all female or Coed.