discipline for volunteer

[Eamonn]

Don't think that I want to be a the assistant scout executive. It's lonely at the top.

It does seem that the roundtable, got a bit out of hand.

As a district chair. I do attend all of the district roundtables,even though I know that I don't have to, and it's not my job. In fact the entire key 3 are at all of these meetings. So,without trying to be smug about it, I feel sure it would never have got this far.

But if it had.

I would send someone over to have a chat with this person, to explain what the correct way is to complain.

I would also go to great lengths to explain that Scouting is a safe haven, where no one gets harmed in body or in spirit. This is true for everyone, even the paid members of our organization.

I would also meet with the people who were upset, and explain that while you can't remove this very sad excuse for a leader, you do understand why they are upset.

Failing this, I would see if there were any of the rockets left and .....

[dsteele]

Thank you all for your replies. Your advice is helpful and so is the affirmation that the behavior of this specific volunteer is not to be tolerated.

 

My advice to the District Executive who is the DE for that district was to have the District Chairman (who was present at the roundtable) write a letter to the cubmaster and strongly suggest an apology at the next roundtable.

 

I doubt very seriously that the CM will deliver it. Those who pointed out that pressure should be kept volunteer to volunteer (and conversly professional to professional) are also correct. I've got a couple of council vice presidents who will thump on this man, but their wrath may be more punishment than the crime requires. I'm not sure. I'm not saying that his offensive remarks don't merit punishment, but you don't know these V.P's!

 

I think, based on collective advice, that I will be at the next roundtable in that district and explain to people how seriously we take camp evaluations. I'll handle the female topic carefully, but won't require the presence of my two female DE's. If I won't ask them to be at all roundtables, I won't ask them to be at one.

 

Thanks as well to those who realize that Assistant Scout Executive isn't an easy position in the BSA. I was at a training for professionals (before I became an ASE) and a couple Assistant Scout Executives were there. Someone told the trainer his title was Assistant Scout Executive. He smiled, bowed and said, "then God Bless you, sir.)

 

BTW -- senior level trainers of professional scouters were Scout Executives (council executives) at one point in their career.

 

DS

 

Keep the responses coming. You've got good ideas. Besides, I'm on vacation and this volunteer is the first thing I'm going to deal with when I get back on Thursday.

 

DS

[RMV]

I too wouldn't want to be the ASE, it's lonely in the middle as well. But I guess that is why they pay you the big bucks. (Fortunately we aren't paid in Scout Bucks!)

 

 

I think that I would meet with this leader one on one. Make sure that his side of the story is told. He may well agree that the story told was what he believes, if so I would be very direct in asking how such comments fit within the Scout Oath and Law. For lack of a better description, a verbal spanking would be in order. Can't do this if others are present.

 

He may wish that he hadn't said such things and may well be looking for a way to make peace and move on. If so, a personal visit may be less of a stern lecture and more of a learning session. When I was a Scout, we called this a guided discovery. I think we would now call it reflection. There may be some positive that can come out of this. Look for the win, win. If he chooses this route, set a meeting with he and the directors, then have him report his thoughts of the meeting at the next roundtable, have faith that the Scout will come out.

 

He will probably say that the story is close to right, but was taken out of context. Either way, find out if he has any real reasons to have a problem with the camp or the staff. He may. He may have then made a bad jump in logic as to why. If he doesn't think that women have a place in Scouting he is flat out wrong and every effort should be made to convince him of that.

 

Have fun out there!

 

RMV

 

[evmori]

Bob White,

Excellent suggestion! I love it!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[scoutldr]

Keep in mind that filling out a Scouter application does not cancel our first amendment right to be stupid in public. I, for one can tell you. Where is the Commissioner staff? I believe that the DC or UC should have a chat with the "gentleman" and remind him of BSA policy of gender inclusion and that, by filling out the application, he agreed to uphold. If not, the DC should offer to help him recruit his replacement.

 

Does this make him an "avowed" sexist? HMMMMM.

[sctmom]

As a female volunteer I would want to know that someone talked to this jerk and explained to him the RIGHT way to complain and that when it comes to our volunteer jobs we are all "Adults". He needs a verbal lashing about the comments about women.

 

Even though I appreciate the gesture of the rose, please don't. That just continues to point the difference and continues the stereotype. Would you buy a rose for a man? Probably not.

Plus the rose would get squished in the car on the way home because of all the scout stuff we all tote around. hehe

 

 

[dan]

I am totally confused!?!?

 

1. The chartered organization selects its own leaders. I have no authority to remove this dude just because he's a sexist jerk.

Are you saying only the CO is able to remove a leader no matter what?!?

Could not the BSA remove him for being a racist?

 

3. This guy is the cubmaster in a small one pack town and has over 100 active boys. That doesn't excuse his behavior or his comments, but must be considered in the solution. I don't want to hurt or risk hurting, the program for those boys in his pack.

Are you sure it would not be better not to have a pack at all than with this guy running it?

What is he teaching the Cubs?

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I have to echo an earlier Bob White comment, this guy is a CM of an 100 member cub pack and dosnt have any female leaders? Thats the largest LDS pack I have ever seen if so.

 

Can that be true? And even if it is, with 100 cubs, you dont think there arent a few Dad's (or mom's, talk about poetic justice)that would take over? If he is this much a Neanderthal at Roundtable, what must he be like at pack meetings? Whatever is done, I dont see a 100 member pack fold just because one person isnt around.

 

 

[RMV]

I would bet that this leader is not against female leadership, only female leadership at camp.

 

This is something I have run into from time to time. My wife was business manager at camp the first summer that I was camp director. As a DE she never ran into any trouble with this, at camp she did. After that first summer, she never wanted to return.

 

As a camp director(3 summers as director, 11 total summers on camp staff) I found most of the women I hired to be great staff. At the same time, because there are very few of them, they find themselves getting a lot of attention. Some they like and encourage, other times it can get pretty scary for them. It is seldom the girls behavior that makes it so Troop leaders wish that the girls were not at camp!

 

I had a group of leaders upset that I had female camp staff. They insisted that the female staff distracted their Scouts from completing badges and having a full camp experience. The law on this is pretty clear. I have to hire the best candidate for the job. Personally, many of these young women were better Scouts than the young men that had been in the program for years.

 

By the way, there are many LDS cub packs with female leaders. Most are Den Leaders, but there are also CC, MC and WL. I have seen a few registered female leaders with their troops, teams and crews, only in MC positions. Not sure what their church policy on this is, but I know that they try to match the Scouting program to be the workshop for what they are teaching in Sunday school. They want the young men to see that their teachers not only say they live their lives in a certain way on Sunday, they get to see these role models live their lives on Scouting activities.

 

I was a DE on the day the announcement came that women could hold all postions in Scouting. I remember one woman that had been acting as a SM for three years at the time, she was living in a neighborhood filled with wealthy business men that were too busy to serve as an SM. Without her, these young people would have never had a Scouting program. She ran a troop of more than 100 Scouts. One day you would find her on a campout, the next at the country club with the other society women. She was a great leader. I remember the day that her leadership was validated. What a great day to be a Scout!

 

RMV