Angry CE

[Weekender]

I was in our council HQ the other day. During our conversation our CE asked if our troop was planning on attending an upcoming council event. This event had not been scheduled and announced prior to our annual planning meeting so we had not origianlly planned on attending. When we heard about the event we changed our schedule to incorperate it but another opportunity presented itself to us. We went to the scouts and said, "here are your choices. The troop can attend the council event or we can attend this other event, or we can do both if you are willing to do two weekends in the same month." The boys chose the non-council event. When I explained this to the CE he was livid. He said it was wrong for leaders to let the boys decide what activities they will attend and that the reason for the adults is to tell the boys what they are going to do.

 

All I could do was shake my head. I guess scouting would be a pretty good program if it weren't for all those derned scouts.

 

BTW: Most folks round here feel the only time they see the professionals is when they want money, time, or both.

[eisely]

I don't know what pressures that particular executive may be feeling, but he needs to go back to school for some more training (our solution for everything).

[evmori]

WOW! Letting the boys decide what event they want to attend! Novel idea for an organization that promotes the "boy led" concept!

 

Sound like the CE is under pressure to get the numbers up for the council event.

 

Weekender,

I applaud your decision to let the boys decide!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Eman]

Wow, I'm not the only person that sees this happening!

When I joined scouting I was dumb enough to think Boy Scouts was actually about the boys. I was also dumb enough to believe that the paid people were there to work for the leaders and the boys. I actually thought that council execs were hired by national to run the councils. Boy have I learned a lot in the last 8 years. When I learned that council execs were hired by the council board(read major donators) I learned a lot about how a council operates.

[Bob White]

Eman,

Why would you want someone in Irving, Texas hiring your local council professional? The council pays their salary, shouldn't a local selection committee do the hiring. It's less about the people who represent major contributors doing the selection. It's more about people with executive management experience selecting the executive manager. The CE isn't supposed to be a scoutmaster, that's not their job. They are resposible for managing other professionals and keeping a huge non-profit organization financial sound and growing.

 

It's our community, our kids, our money, shouldn't it be our selection?

 

Bob White

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Bob,

 

As the hiring of the Council Executve is very important to the direction a Council takes, could you explain this process? While I knew some of the workings, I would like to get an authoratative explanation

[Bob White]

I have never been involved in the total process so I can only tell you in general as I understand it.

 

Councils are ranked according to the size and strength, National and regional divisions determine a hiring pool from which local councils may choose. The CE also has a choice as to what openings they want to apply for. Local volunteer selection committees then interview the applicants and make the final selection. This is pretty close to the system used as I understand it.

 

Bob White

[OldGreyEagle]

Sounds simple enough, our Council just got a new executive within the last year. Seems like a nice guy, but I dont remember a call going out to form the interview/selection committee, is that a formal process? Who gets to select the selection committee, and then, if the local "committee" gets disenchanted with an Executive, then what?

 

[Bob White]

The Council President is usually responsible for selecting an ad-hoc search committee that would do the interviews and report to the council executive board for final approval.

 

The regional and national office constantly monitors a CEs performance. They are evaluated based on the 3 areas of expected growth in a council; money, manpower and membership. All 3 areas greatly affect the ability of the local communities to offer a quality scouting experience to the area youth.

 

The Council President also has the availability of taking concerns about the CE to the regional office.

 

A CE can be reassigned within the profession or put back into the hiring pool. Their performance history would determine if they are given an opportunity to advance, move laterally or be offered an opportunity to re-evaluate their career choices.

 

Bob

[Bob White]

The Council President is usually responsible for selecting an ad-hoc search committee that would do the interviews and report to the council executive board for final approval.

 

The regional and national office constantly monitors a CEs performance. They are evaluated based on the 3 areas of expected growth in a council; money, manpower and membership. All 3 areas greatly affect the ability of the local communities to offer a quality scouting experience to the area youth.

 

The Council President also has the availability of taking concerns about the CE to the regional office.

 

A CE can be reassigned within the profession or put back into the hiring pool. Their performance history would determine if they are given an opportunity to advance, move laterally or be offered an opportunity to re-evaluate their career choices.

 

Bob

[dbraxtonw]

BobWhite's answer is correct.

 

In addition, the Scout Executive of a local council works for the Council Executive Board, not for the National Council. The national office has the authority to see that each local council that it charters carries out the policies, programs and standards of the Boy Scouts of America and looks to the council Scout Executives, who are commissioned by the National Council, to do that. The National Council, through the Area Directors, evaluates council Scout Executives annually, which is a factor in determining who is "promotable."

 

Separate from the evaluation process by the National Council, it is up to the local Council Executive Board to decide on an annual basis whether to renew the council Scout Executive's contract, regardles of the "promotability" status assigned by National.

 

BobWhite's answer regarding the process of selecting a council Scout Executive also was correct. I served on the selection committee for our council (we just interviewed candidates and hired a new council Scout Executive today) and would be happy to share further details about the process if anyone has further questions.

[Aeggman]

I would probably say that the Scout Executive (SE, there is no CE position) was probably frustrated by lack of attendance by more than just your unit. Our Council issues a calendar for 18 months, not just 12 months, so that units can plan accordingly.

 

I also have a problem when we as professionals (I am a District Director in a large District of 4800 youth and 130 units) tend to base our opinions on ATTENDANCE (read...numbers) rather than PROGRAM. If you build a good program, then they will come. If the program needs enhancement, then don't be surprised by attendance.

 

I always try to look at program first before attendance, but then again, I was a volunteer leader until I joined the profession 6 years ago, and do not look at the Scouting profession in the same perspective as other who were not Scouts or leaders before joining the profession.

 

The same holds true for Boy Scout Resident Camp, Day Camps, etc. If your camp attendance has fallen off, you should look to (1) program, then (2) facilities, then (3) leadership, and (4)timing of notification of these events.

 

Scout Executives has an enormous burden to the Executive Board to show growth in most areas of Scouting, whether it be attendance at events, financial growth, and membership growth. It could be that several events have been losing attendance.

[Ray5]

Our Council plan a calendar for 18 months, not just 12 months, so that District can plan accordingly (12 months).

 

I have know that our Council have know most of the activity which are not related to Scout activity. 'Scouting for Food' held the same weekend on Merit Badge Camporee in District area. Merit Badge Camporee spodser by state wide church.

 

Our Troop have take most of the camping many differ area. We don't go much with Council activity except Summer Camp.

 

Council set their own rules and do not pay attend with other non-council activity. Most of the Council boys activity held about four time a year. This all take place about sametime with other non-council activity.

 

Our District set up good schedule of calander for meeting, activity, trip, etc. These District calander are set up by the local district committee work with Cub & Troop leader. Our district have the most boys per unit population. Also our district Order of the Arrow is the largest size of any district.

 

All there activity are the result of Troop leader and District comminttee. Not much at all from Council.

 

I remember back about 1989, our Cub Scout leaders set up the Cub Overnight Weekend at my father farm. This is non-council and non-district activity. We just call most of other local cubmaster and 80% agree to come. This was plan for 6 month. When the day came, the attent was over 300 cub boys with parents. We only charge $1.00 per family per weekend. This money goes to the cost of 'john house'. Ladies need this. Boys, all the little cubs have a ball. Later, I have heard our camping was the largest attend than any other cub activity in years.

 

Remember, council and district have no overnight activity at all cub scout. Just day camp.

 

Few year later, Cubmaster from all district complant to Council and District for not have Cub overnight weekend. They both turn down. Shortly, one of the Cubmaster who is the lawyer have notify the Headquater in Texas about having files sue against the council and district. This lawyer have information and had prove from other council and district. The National have workout with our council. We now have Cub weeknight campout at the Council Camp.

 

We Cub leader and Troop leader have better reason than the Council job.

 

Who run the Scout? Adult or Boy

 

The correct answer is Boy.

 

Adult listen from Boy

Adult setup plan

Adult work with Boy from plan.

Boy have fun from their own plan.

 

Council can not hear from Boy (real council do not listen from kid. They get word from hardhead scoutleader.)

Council setup unknow plan

Council work with District from unknow plan

District put plan to work

Boy work from plan

Boy have no fun of their own.

[Aeggman]

Great answer. Program is the key factor to many problems.

 

Boys have great ideas if we listen.

[dbraxtonw]

We also should remember that the primary setting in which scouting activities are held is the unit. All programs of the BSA, beginning with the Tiger program for Cub Scouts, all the way through the Venture program, are designed for most of the activities to take place through unit meetings and activities.

 

The purpose of district, council and national program activities is to supplement and compliment the unit's own program, not replace it. Participation in district, council and national programs can provide access to resources that might not be available to the individual unit and can broaden the scouting experience for youth by helping them understand how each unit is a part of a worldwide movement; however, the youth in a unit that does none of it's own programming and relies entirely on district, council and national events are missing the experience that comes from working as an independent unit. The more successful units with which I am familiar seek to balance individual unit activities with district, council and national activities so that the youth have the opportunity to experience the best of all types of activities.

 

The most important thing is that the unit be active, holding regular meetings and conducting or participating in activities as designed for each program, in such a way that the youth have fun and, in so doing, learn and live the values of the Scout Oath and Law which will enable them to make ethical choices over their lifetimes.