Drawing lessons from BSA program...

[Cheerful Eagle]

First, the background...

 

I am a Cubscout leader, been to Philmont, been to Woodbadge (2x, second as TG)... my first scouting loyalty is to BP.

 

I am also mom to a wonderful 11 year old girl, who wishes she could do all the cool things her brothers do. (And yes, we have the Venturing crew membership form filed at home and ready to be signed on her 14th birthday).

 

I have done Daisies, Brownies and now Juniors with her as a leader -- done the training too. Last year we moved to a new state and started a troop from scratch (there were no GS troops at her school). We have a SMALL troop (8 scouts). The GS program looks more like the BS program than the Cub program in that there are dozens of badges one can work on, and little overall yearly program goal (aside from the Bronze, Silver and Gold awards that are roughly analgous to Star, Life, and Eagle ranks).

 

NOW the question: When you have little direction from the program, how do you start to build a calander for your troop meetings and outings? Especially given you are (basically) starting with a small group of 11 year olds?

 

I'd love to hear stories from SM's who have started small with a group of inexperienced youngsters!

 

The good news is that we have a good relationship with my Cub Pack, and are planning on partnering with them for family camp and community service like scouting for food.

 

(This message has been edited by cheerful Eagle)(This message has been edited by cheerful Eagle)

[Backwoods]

interesting question, good opportunity. As the father of multiple scouts, girl and boy, one thing that I have noticed in both organizations is the more involved the scout is in planning, the more fun they have. This goes equally for the successes and the mistakes. If I were the leader of your Troop, I would start by asking them what they would like to get out of a year of Girl Scouting. Of course I would have a coouple of ideas myself ready for the suggesting! Each of the girls may have some interesting ideas to offer for service or activity. You might be surprised at what they come up with. Even if they come up with "girly" things that you might want to steer away from, remember it is their Troop. I would sit down at your next meeting with a calender and some goals. Look at the advancement needs (bronze), and your own desires along with their ideas and mark up the calender.

 

Good luck, sounds like a neat opportunity for all involved.

[purpledragon]

Hi Cheerful Scout,

 

I am have split off from a less desirable troop and just started a new troop as well. Right now we have 7 girls (which is the max most in this area have in a troop, and I disagree with that--- but that is a topic for another post). 5 of the girls that just joined have no scouting experience. One girl split with us and she sort of has one year experience (the less than desirable troop thing again). Then there is my daughter. She has 3 years in GS, but all with that same above mentioned troop. She has however been to her brothers BS meetings and sees what they boys do.

 

So, this is what he have done thus far. I explained to the girls that it was their troop and that we would do what they wanted, but with in reason. That some of the things they want might not be an option and I gave examples to them. I asked them what sort of activities they wanted to do. They were very clear on a few of them...including going out on weekend camps to get away from their parents. (lol) They lie math, science, sports, camping,crafts, and playing the games we have each meeting.

 

I explained to them what a Bronze Award was. I have a workbook on my website (check it out if you would like: troop31668.org). I had a few copies of it so they could look at it, I explained that even though this was their troop that sometimes the adults (leaders and even parents) might pick what they do. That this would not happen that often, but if we saw a need that really needed to be addressed or filled that we would do that. I gave examples when this might happen and why. They agreed that this was acceptable.

 

I told them that part of scouting involves ceremonies that are important to traditions and that we would be doing things that are traditional.

 

I also explained that part of GS is having the opportunity to earn their bronze, silver, and gold awards. Because of this I told them that we would be doing the requirements for these awards so that any girl that wanted to earn the award would be able to do so. I explained to them about girls that decided that they wanted to earn an award at the last minute and because the basics for the award were not earned they ran out of time and did not get to earn the award. I explained that they did not have to earn the award and if they did not want to earn the basics to get them set to earn the awards that was okay, but it was my job as a leader to make sure that they had the opportunity to earn it if they wanted to. They agreed that this sounded reasonable.

 

I then had them look through their badge books and each pick the top 5 badges they wanted to work on. At the next meeting we make a master list that includes each girls top 5 (usually there will be repeats). From this list we vote. The then find the top 5 from our master list. That is were we start. After you have earned those five you go on to the next five until all of them are earned (or every girl votes to drop a badge from the master list). We complete all of the badges in the master list, because that is fair to the girls. I explain that maybe a girls favorite badge might be voted close to the bottom, and that she participated in all of the other badges, it is only fair that we complete hers. Usually there are a few at the very bottom that get voted off the list (100% of the girls needs to vote it off). Then we start all over again.

 

I also encourage the girls to work on their own or in smaller groups on a badge if they would like. I have a form (for Juniors) on my site they can use when they work on their own badges. It helps both of us to keep things organized.

 

Of course we will add in some badges, like right now we are finishing up Cookie Biz and the Cookie Pin because it is cookie time.

 

My new troop finally came together (meaning we went from 2 girls to 7 girls) in November. SO we are pretty new. I have four 4th graders and three 5th graders. Next year we will be running a split troop.

 

I hope this gives you some suggestions and ideas. I truely believe the troop is for the girls and run by the girls as much as possible. It is my goal to put this in action. Yes, I think piggybacking on a BS Pack or BS Troop is also a great idea. We are a sister troop to a BS troop. Eventually if they girls want to join a venturing crew, they will have a connection to the one that will most likely form from the BS Troop we have. Many parents have said that if there is a desire to have a VC they are willing to help run it. All three my GS troop, the BS pack and the BS troop are sponsored by the same group, and have connections that way as well.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[purpledragon]

Rumor has it that part of the new GS model is going to include some materials to help leaders to plan and lead the girls better. I do not remember exactly where I read this, but here are a few links to give you some ideas about the upcoming changes in case you are not aware.

 

www.gssjc..org/cin/fd/2008/Feb/programchanges2008.pdf

 

http://www.girlscouts.org/for_adults/leader_magazine/2006_winter/setting_the_pace.pdf

 

Either way things shake out, it will be interesting. I still hold onto the program direction of our BS Troop and will most likely continue down a road that parallels their program in many ways. At the BS troop level the boys are mostly boy run (with reasonable limitations where needed for safety and such). Considering our troop adds at least 20% in new boys each year, I suspect that they are doing something correct. And by next summer my girls will all be the same age that boys transition from a Pack to a Troop, that will work out nicely.

 

 

[Joni4TA]

Seems to me the one thing that has been shoved down my throat both in BSA and GSUSA is youth-led, youth-run. I'd say if you could stick with that and take nothing else as written in stone, the kids will have themselves a pretty fair program.

 

I agree, GS training is full of how to make swaps, cute flag ceremonies, thinking day celebrations, sing songs, sell calendars, nuts and cookies - but very little focuses on program and advancements.

 

With 11yr olds, you have the opportunity to have 2 Junior Girl Scout patrols there... about 4 girls per patrol, and utilize the patrol method. That keeps the girls engaged for the most part. As far as what they can earn, holy cow, Girl Scouts have a patch for darn near everything in the world!! lol What Badges, IPs, etc. do THE GIRLS want to work on? That would be my basis for planning - allowing THEM to plan the program!

 

Good Luck!! (This message has been edited by Joni4TA)

[Cheerful Eagle]

Thanks for the encouragement everyone!

 

Looks like next year we will be running a split troop too. We will have 4rth, 5th and 6th graders. I think the older girls will be finished with their bronze project and badge requirements by the end of this school year.

 

So I'm thinking that they (the scouts entering 6th grade, who have finished Bronze) should probably bridge to cadettes shortly after being awarded the Bronze. BTW to those not familiar to GS, scouts move up generally because of ageing out, not because they have earned a rank.

 

That leads me to a question of patrol structure, to which I know there's no pat answer, but I like noodeling about it anyway: Do I have the older girls lead the younger girls, or have a Junior patrol and a Caddette Patrol? And if , do I have a seperate meeting for the patrol leaders in either case (I'm sure the answer is yes). One thing I'm beginning to notice are some grumbelings from the younger scouts that the older girls are "bossy" and exclusive. Of course the complainer isn't the picture of gentle inclusion either; a bit of the pot calling the kettle black...

 

[purpledragon]

First let me clear up one thing:

 

PATCHES and not earned per-say,you receive a patch for two reasons: 1) You attended an event and you get the patch as a keepsake. 2) You can earn patches if you follow a patch program, which are supposedly easier than earning badges. Because of this they are only allowed to be worn on the back of your vest/sash. (Similar to BS with their sash, or the jacket/vest they have specifically for patches.)

 

BADGES (TRY ITS or IP (Interest Projects) are earned. You much complete the necessary number of requirements to earn this award. As such these are worn on the front of the vest or sash (with the exception that if the front is full you may start adding them to the back).

 

 

As for the split troop, I personally will be dividing our girls by GS level. Why? Because of the huge differences between a Badge and an IP. However that does not mean that the patrols cannot be mixed up and the girls regrouped at meetings or outings as needed. One thing I dislike about GS is the lack of the mixed ages. That said, even with the BS I see the "bossy" and the attempt of some to alienate the younger boys. I suspect the only real solution is to keep an eye out and keep on them about living up to the law: "be a sister to EVERY Girl Scout", "friendly and helpful", "considerate and caring", Responsible for what I say and do" (and what I say by NOT saying anything when needed as well as what I say by not doing anything when I should do something), "respect myself and others", and to "respect authority" (for those times when the older girls are actually doing/saying the right things but the young ones just do not want to listen/follow). The law in both BS and GS is actually something I love to refer back to when the kids need a reminder. After all scouting is not merely just an activity group the kids belong to, it was designed to be a way of life for those involved.

 

 

"One thing I'm beginning to notice are some grumbelings from the younger scouts that the older girls are "bossy" and exclusive. Of course the complainer isn't the picture of gentle inclusion either; a bit of the pot calling the kettle black..."

 

It is this exact situation when I call on my "Leader Authority" to decide that the group needs to work on a specific badge. Figure out what one fits the situation best and have them work on it or the parts of different badges that are tied to what is going on. Example- Lead On (To learn about leadership), Model Citizen (to learn about how to be a good citizen in the troop as well), Becoming a Teen (has a section about freedom and responsibility), Being My Best (helps self esteem), Celebrating People (if you need to talk about differences and similarities in the group), Healthy Relationships (learning to get along with people), It's Important To Me (on values), Communication (you can go into the importance of communication and explain how "noise" and "hearing what you want" are problems in good communication as are thinking you sent the message you wanted, but in actuality you sent another message...how communication is a two way street and both parties need to take responsibility), and so on.

 

It looks like you might have just found another way to start filling out you calender for troop meetings and outings. You might want to introduce the girl to the concept of ropes courses. (Great team building opportunities there!)

 

http://www.adventureassoc.com/team/ropes-courses/ropes-course-challenge.html

 

 

Have fun!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AnneinMpls]

Regarding your question, do patrol leaders meet separately?

Yes, they should - the traditional term for the patrol leader meeting in GSUSA is the "Court of Honor" (yha, I know...)

Originally, patrol leaders were appointed, and any misbehavior of scouts was handled by the Court of Honor - the patrol leaders when assembled had authority to impose punishments, etc. Obviously, this has changed over time

Generally, whenever we elect patrol leaders, I schedule a patrol leader training (my dining room table - I serve tea) and I have patrol leader manuals that I've made up - I've photocopied pages from old GS handbooks and publications now out of print: you can look for these on EBay. The oldest GSUSA publication I've come across is called "Patrols and Their Court of Honor".

We spend most of the time going through the out of print Patrol Leader's Handbook - try very hard to get your hands on this. It has an awesome picutre depicting the Troop Leader *gazing out the window or looking at the sky* because the patrol system is functioning properly I tell them their job is to make me really bored

We go over how to make kaper charts - assigning tasks using the buddy system, meal plans for overnights, and we go over how to help new girls earn their first badges - I give this responsibility to the patrol leaders - this was traditional back in the day and it's a good one! We use the Girl Scouting in the USA badge as sortof our tenderfoot rank. Patrol leaders have a page on it in the patrol leader manual I put together. Also order for flag ceremonies is in there.

I would love to refine this and make it available but of course there are copyright issues to doing so! Currently I'm operating under the principle of using extracts of material for educational purposes and not for sale.

Hope this helps!

Anne in Mpls

[purpledragon]

AnninMpls I fully understand about the copyright for the material you have gathered and use. Do you think that you could please post the books titles, isbn numbers, and the pages that you have used for your handbooks? That way others can start looking for the information and we will be able to use it as well. I'd hate for good information to not be shared.

 

I am trying to get back into the older style for running a GS troop and I enjoy finding the older stuff to use (the stuff they have dropped from the program for some reason, like the outdoor skills and now this).

 

If you can do that I would be GREATLY appreciated.

[AnneinMpls]

Oh dear - I had a very lengthy reply to you privately all set to go and then my flaky internet connection dropped and I lost the whole thing.

 

Email me at avarberg@yahoo.com and I will send more details! At least in my own email program, if the connection drops I have a draft!

 

Peace!

Anne in Mpls

[Cheerful Eagle]

Ya I'd like to see that material too! (OOPs, I'm channeling Bevah )

 

 

[briantshore]

A year and a half ago, we started a new Jr. Troop. We split off from another troop becouse of lack of program. In 3 years as Brownies they had left the basment of the church only about 4 times. The rest of the time was only crafts, and guest speakers. My wife was the Co-leader, and could not get the leader to take them outdoors.

She recruted me to be her Co-leader of this new troop. Our first year we took several field trips, 2 campouts, bowling party, etc.

My wife does all the administation stuff, where I focus my efforts to program planning. I am quite gung-ho, Eagle Scout, Philmont, Cub Den Leader, and Woodbadge. We have not been very succesful with the troop led portion. I have did a lot of activities dealing with teamwork, but the girls seem to take forever to come up with a dicision on any topic. We will keep pluging away. My wife seems very hestitent with the (Youth Led) idea. Our biggest hurdle seems to be showing the girls how it should work, and follow the pattern. Hope you find the answer your looking for.

[briantshore]

A year and a half ago, we started a new Jr. Troop. We split off from another troop becouse of lack of program. In 3 years as Brownies they had left the basment of the church only about 4 times. The rest of the time was only crafts, and guest speakers. My wife was the Co-leader, and could not get the leader to take them outdoors.

She recruted me to be her Co-leader of this new troop. Our first year we took several field trips, 2 campouts, bowling party, etc.

My wife does all the administation stuff, where I focus my efforts to program planning. I am quite gung-ho, Eagle Scout, Philmont, Cub Den Leader, and Woodbadge. We have not been very succesful with the troop led portion. I have did a lot of activities dealing with teamwork, but the girls seem to take forever to come up with a dicision on any topic. We will keep pluging away. My wife seems very hestitent with the (Youth Led) idea. Our biggest hurdle seems to be showing the girls how it should work, and follow the pattern. Hope you find the answer your looking for.

[briantshore]

A year and a half ago, we started a new Jr. Troop. We split off from another troop becouse of lack of program. In 3 years as Brownies they had left the basment of the church only about 4 times. The rest of the time was only crafts, and guest speakers. My wife was the Co-leader, and could not get the leader to take them outdoors.

She recruted me to be her Co-leader of this new troop. Our first year we took several field trips, 2 campouts, bowling party, etc.

My wife does all the administation stuff, where I focus my efforts to program planning. I am quite gung-ho, Eagle Scout, Philmont, Cub Den Leader, and Woodbadge. We have not been very succesful with the troop led portion. I have did a lot of activities dealing with teamwork, but the girls seem to take forever to come up with a dicision on any topic. We will keep pluging away. My wife seems very hestitent with the (Youth Led) idea. Our biggest hurdle seems to be showing the girls how it should work, and follow the pattern. Hope you find the answer your looking for.

[briantshore]

A year and a half ago, we started a new Jr. Troop. We split off from another troop becouse of lack of program. In 3 years as Brownies they had left the basment of the church only about 4 times. The rest of the time was only crafts, and guest speakers. My wife was the Co-leader, and could not get the leader to take them outdoors.

She recruted me to be her Co-leader of this new troop. Our first year we took several field trips, 2 campouts, bowling party, etc.

My wife does all the administation stuff, where I focus my efforts to program planning. I am quite gung-ho, Eagle Scout, Philmont, Cub Den Leader, and Woodbadge. We have not been very succesful with the troop led portion. I have did a lot of activities dealing with teamwork, but the girls seem to take forever to come up with a dicision on any topic. We will keep pluging away. My wife seems very hestitent with the (Youth Led) idea. Our biggest hurdle seems to be showing the girls how it should work, and follow the pattern. Hope you find the answer your looking for.