Diffences in Scouting programs

[yarrow]

Here's my take

 

I have been a Girl Scout leader for 10 years and came up through the program. I have been a Cub Scout Den Leader for a number of years and am now a trained leader for our Boy Scout troop of 80 as well as the troop Secretary. I have also been the Program Director for the Cub Scout Day camp of over 200. I do scouts, as I am sure do you.

 

Boys and Girls are different. Boy Scouting and Girl Scouting programs are different. I wish they would get the two together and take from each program the good and get rid of the things from each program that drive me crazy.

 

The programs are structured differently as you know. Boy Scout troops and Cub Scout Packs are very larger and much more like 3-5 Girl Scout troops put together. Girl Scout troops are more like Dens or Patrols in size and as a result have some limitations in program and finances. Heck by the time you get to Senior troops you are lucky to have 3-4 girls. In a Boy Scout troop the numbers are not that different though. In a troop of say 30 you might not have more than 3-4 17-18 year-old boys either, but you have lots of younger boys providing more opportunity for leadership and variety of program. It is one of the Boy Scout structure's strengths. I might also add that the Boy Scout program nationwide is funded cooporately a little better. Not fair or right, but there it is.

 

The Girl Scouts, even though girl led much earlier, still reflects the interests of the adult in charge. If the leader is just not a camper, even though the girls want to camp, they might not do much camping. I provide a varied program with a slight leaning toward camping and physical activities, not because I love rock climbing, but because this group of girls do. Last year I had many more girls that loved crafting sooooo we did more of that.

 

Boy Scouts have more Camping and Leadership, Girl Scouts have more Service and Leadership. Both have badges (a little more skills oriented in Boy Scouts and a little more career and service oriented in Girl Scouts, plus Girl Scouts include the gender issues that women have come to focus on since the 60-70's). Men/Women........what did you expect. Like it or not women are more service oriented. The amount of service that Boy Scouts are required to do (of course some do more) for rank advancement until Eagle is a joke compared to what Girl Scouts do. Each Cadette and Senior interest patch requires a ton.

 

The path to a Gold Award is really hard. The path to Eagle not as hard. I have a 12 year old boy with Life rank and all but 2 Eagle required badges and a huge number of extra badges. He is not an over achiever and not particularily ambitious. It is just easier. My 17 year old Girl Scouts has taken on some Challenge projects that were harder than many Eagle projects by far and it's just one step towards the Gold. Unfortunately if you put Eagle on your application the interviewer says "Ahhh", if you put Gold Award they say "Huh?" Truly unfortunate.

 

Girl Scouts is structured more like packs in that they don't have rank advancement, they just move up by grade. The Gold, Silver and Bronze awards add another element but once again are service oriented. I have worked with 4-6 5th grade boys and 4-6 5th grade girls......trust me they are different, due to the delayed maturation of boys. Girl Scouts allow camping earlier and with less adults as well as cooking, real cooking not just combining, and knife work. Girls are just ready sooner. I run both programs the same, borrowing resources from each for the other. Girls like knots, boys like knots. Boys like rock climbing, girls like rock climbing. Boys like sewing,yes they do, girls like sewing. In their interests they are not that different.

 

However due to the small size of Girl Scout troops regardless of the girls' interest in camping, in most cases, if the leader is not a camper, they won't do much camping. If they were in larger groups, like the Boy Scouts, I think you would see mixed ages......some camping, some roller skating, some crafting.

 

Anyway I like both programs, and women are hugely important for both programs in leadership and behind the scenes. There isn't an Eagle that doesn't said something to the effect of "Thanks Mom for the kick in the b**t that got me here"

[MomScouter]

You have painted a very accurate picture of the 2 programs. I agree that it would be good if the 2 could borrow from each other. I am fortunate in that 2 of my 3 Brownie co-leaders are also involved in Cub Scouts so we tend to borrow from each program where we can - for example, unlike many GS troops in out area, we encourage our troop to be of mixed ages (some troops around here actually limit troops to 1 grade level) so we are running our large (29 girls) troop more like a pack with dens (we have patrols). We go on a lot of the same types of outings at the Cubs. This month we have new patrols and all of our bridging 3rd graders are in the same patrol so they can work on bridging. I will be starting a Jr. troop in May with several adults, and the Brownie troop will continue with the younger girls as well as incoming 1st graders and hopefully more adults. I am completing my 3rd year as a leader and while Brownies was fun, I am looking forward very much to Juniors.

 

We do have a fairly active Service Unit so there are usually monthly activities at the SU level. These vary from service projects to skating parties to the Thinking day International Bazaar.

 

It is unfortunate that the Gold Award does not get more recognition comparable to that of Eagle.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

All of my Girl Scout knowledge comes from the members of my Venture Crew. To earn the Silver the girls have to do a service project and to earn Gold, they have to do a larger service project. While the Gold and Eagle project may be similar, the service project that the girls must do for Silver has no Boy Scout equivalent. The closest thing BSA has is the requirement for service hours, but running a project is a lot different than showing up and working. Then again, either Silver or Gold project or both may end up benefitting the Girl Scouts while an Eagle Project may not benefit the Boy Scouts

 

Another difference I see is who "owns" the troops. In Boy Scouts the Chartering Organization own the equipment while BSA own the program. In Girl Scouts, the local council owns everything. And the councils seem to "mess" with the troops, combining some and dropping others. To me thats the real difference, and Girl Scouters feel free to disagree and I am going to speak in generalities, but it seems like Girl Scout troops fold much faster and easier than Boy Scout troops. Maybe numbers has an effect. Most Girl Scout Troops have a few leaders and when they burn out the troop folds. Boy Scout Troops tend to have more leaders and a COmmitee to support the scoutmaster and assitant scoutmaster, I dont know if Girl Scouts has the same structure. Boy Scout troops continue for years, decades while Girl Scout Troops seem ( in my limited experience) to appear and disappear rather quickly. Thats just my impression.

 

Our Venture Crew got started because the girls in the church that sponsors the boy scout troop saw us comming back on sunday morning from all sorts of "neat trips" and they wanted to do it as well. Their leader is not outdoor focused and voila, a coed Venture crew is born.

 

but lastly,

 

"boys and girls are different"

 

Now there's a phrase even my favorite rhetorictician

may have a hard time dissecting.

 

And while I may not be a francophile,

 

VIVE LE DIFFERANCE

 

[MomScouter]

OGE, sad but true, GS troops fold quickly at least where I live. The most common complaint I hear from other leaders is the lack of parental help. We are fortunate in our troop to have a good deal of support and help, we even have a committee, but somewhat unfortunately these are all mothers. We rarely see a Dad at anything other than specific Father/Daughter events. In contrast, pack meetings seem to have moms, dads, grandparents, siblings, etc. I hope to encourage more Dad participation when I start my Junior troop.

 

As for council owning the GS troop resources, I actually prefer it that way. I am held accountable for every dime that goes in and out of the checking account. I have to produce receipts for eveything. I greatly simplify this by using accounting software to balance the checkbook. My experience in BSA with bank accounts has been kind of an anything goes with the money as long as the Committee agrees, and I have been in Committees with as few as 5 people. In fact, I am in the process of switching BS troops right now, one reason of which is that the bank account is in the SM's name and the money seems to go into a black hole.

 

Our GS council never messes with us, they are too short staffed for stuff like that! My personal experience is that the local GS council is a lot more organized than the local BSA council, but that may be unique to where I live.

 

My goal is that by the time I have a Cadette or Senior troop with girls of around Venture age, that it will be every bit as interesting as a Venture crew! (I hope)

[OldGreyEagle]

Again, I repeat I have very little experience with Girl Scouts. But I have heard comment that many Girl Scout leaders actually inhibit father participation past specified Father/Daughter activties, that when it comes to day to day operations, GSA doesntwant male involvement. I may be wrong, I am just looking for clarifaction. I only know what a very few girl scouts have told me and they may be confused

[sctmom]

OGE, I've heard the same thing about troops not wanting dads involved. I heard it from dads of Girl Scouts! Their wives are the leaders of the Girl Scouts. They said the parents of the troops can decide what they want, and they decided no men camping ever.

 

I think it is like so many things, one must look at each troop and the surrounding community to determine what is best for the girls.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

What??? A program run for youth designed for the sole purpose of what's best for the youth served??? Lets keep that a secret, I wouldnt want THAT concept to leak out

[sctmom]

OGE, You know that I'm one of those "radical" thinkers.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Sounds more like left wing liberalistic libertarian zealotry that will cause the demise of western civilization...

 

BTW, I like the way the Girl Scouts use the older scouts to help the younger ones. I know in Boy Scouts we have patrol leaders and Den Chiefs, but almost all the Girl Scouts I know help in some way with the younger girls. I think its part of their requierments for ranks.

 

The working with the younger kids and having two individually run service projects are things I would like to see BSA adopt from GSA

 

Wait... I said the Boy Scouts should/could be improved... Maybe I had better just start the OldGreyEagle Corp or something as we know BSA is perfect as it is and needs no tweaking(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[yarrow]

Silver projects may benefit the Girl Scouts and or may improve their property. Gold Award, projects may not benefit Girl Scouts or the property but only the community (just like Eagles).

[sctmom]

OGE --- ROFL

 

Yarrow, thanks for that clarification about the Gold award. I thought it could not benefit Girl Scouts but wasn't sure.

 

I like the Girl Scouts page for Girls. It has a long list of emails that girls have written about what they did for the Silver and Gold Awards. Some of these girls put a lot of thought and effort into their projects.

 

[MomScouter]

I for one would welcome a Dad leader or asst. leader, we need all the help we can get! I do know several male leaders nearby, they camp and all that. The rule is that there must be at least one female leader involved at all times and of course, males have separate sleeping quarters. Last summer I worked GS day camp, and we had a boys campsite for boy children of leaders and volunteers. It was led by a Cub leader/Eagle Scouter and everyone benefited from having this adult and the 'boys camp' present. They participated in everything the girls did, made a unit flag and yell like the girls, took their turn with flag ceremonies, and put on a great skit! So many of the people involved in Scouting around here have boys and girls and tend to get involved in both.

[sctmom]

It's amazing how often I see posts about Girl Scouts needing "all the help we can get". Sometimes Cub Scout Packs say that and sometime Boy Scout Troops say that. But not to the extent I hear it from Girl Scouts. Girl Scouting seems more open to adults helping that are not necessarily moms of the Girl Scout girls. Cub Scout Packs focus on the parents of the current Pack. Boy Scouts troops, for the most part, look to the dads of the boys currently in the troop or maybe young adults that were in that troop as youth.

 

Just an observation.

[sctmom]

By the way, OGE what are you doing over here in the Girl Scout area? Isn't that against some manly rules of conduct (unwritten rules of conduct of course)? Aren't you betraying BSA by being associated with such a sinister program as GSUSA?

 

(all said with tongue in cheek)

It's FRIDAY! And the weather is NICE!

[OldGreyEagle]

I dont want to hijack this thread any more than perhaps I already have. I know of GSA experience through the girls in my Venture Crew. I will have you know that the girls know who Lord Bade-Powell is and while in England on a band trip several of our venture girls visited the baden-powell manor.

 

I also will have you know that they taught me that Juliet Gordon Lowe founded GSA and lived in Savannah Georgia. On a business trip to Savabbah they made suer I knew to drive around her house once. And acording to the scout history buff in the group, Baden-Powell asked Ms Lowe to marry him. She refused, saying he needed a proper English wife and she was to much an independent american.

 

On another note, this thread was what this forum used to be, people sharing opinions and ideas without being lambasted for dangling a participle or perhaps holding a view in conflict with another.

 

See, we can all get along, if we try