being involved in both Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts

[MomScouter]

I am interested in comments and observations from those adult volunteers who are involved in both Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts. Does your experience with one organization impact the other? Do you prefer one org policies over the other? Have your units ever done any joint projects or outings?

[Eman]

I am a registered Boy Scout leader, but my wife is registered in both. The Girl Scouts don't seem to have much of a program that includes "outing". They have a lot more rules and regulations that do nothing to make the program better for the girls. When my daughter was registered to a troop (now defunct) the troop leader wouldn't take a personal check for re-registration. She said it was GSA policy for her not to take personal checks. We questioned that at council and found out she was correct.

My girl goes to camp every year at our council camp. It is a very weak program and attendance is low (30-60 girls a week). At our local Boy Scout camp the program is fair but attendance is as high as 500 boys a week.

Boy Scouts are struggling in our area, but Girl Scouts has died. It doesn't seem as the council is doing anything to resurrect it. No one from GSA goes to the schools, they just hand out a flyer at school and have interested girls mail them in. There are no troops still active in our town which includes 4 elementary schools and 2 middle schools.

I'm sure it's strong in other areas, but aside from cookie sales I've never seen the GSA do anything.

[MomScouter]

Eman, thanks for your reply. I think it is different everywhere; in our area we have to go out and recruit boys for packs and troops, but with the girls we have more girls wanting to join than we have leaders for. I am involved as a Brownie leader and a BSA troop committee person, and was a Cub leader. Several of my Brownie co-leaders are also Cub leaders. We make sure our girls have a lot of outdoor experiences as well as a wide range of other activities. We tend to borrow ideas from each other as well as resources.

 

It is interesting how the council rules differ. In my area, I would rather deal with the GS council because they seem much more organized and responsive. GS councils hold troops accountable for reporting their finances via annual financial reports whereas BS councils have no interest in troop finances; this is Ok if you have a solid committee to oversee things but if not, no one monitors how the money is spent (I know of no chartered orgs around here that review troop bank accounts, or for that matter are even aware that they own the accounts). On the other hand, GS have a lot of weird rules that drive us nuts! But I suppose they evolved for a reason.

 

GS promotes a program where the girls (to varying degrees depending upon their age) make decisions about what to do with their meetings and outings. BSA does not seem to do this until the boys are in Boy Scouts. As a Cub leader we planned everything for the boys, then let Webelos decide a few things, then all of a sudden in Boy Scouts everything is boy led. GS do this from the beginning in a gradual way so that by the time they are Juniors (4th grade) they are pretty competent in making decisions and planning things.

 

We have had joint service projects that turned out well. We also have a lot of events where girls attend BSA events as sisters of Cub/Boy scouts, and vise versa (family campouts, Blue and Gold, fun days, Iron Horse hikes, Tasting Teas, etc).

 

It does seem that GS troops have a tendency to 'close' to new members whereas BS packs/troops are constantly seeking more members. Some GS troop leaders will decide they want to limit membership to a certain grade level, or a certain number of girls. This is usually due to a leader not getting much in the way of help from other parents. We accept any and all girls in our troop provided there are some adults willing to co-lead or help out, and take over the troop when those of us with older girls move up. In both kinds of units, though, there is a big shortage of adult help!

 

 

[sctmom]

I've been involved in Cub Scouts for the past few years. Our cubmaster's wife is in Girl Scouts. He thinks the Girl Scouts have bizarre rules. Seems like some of the rules vary greatly from council to council and even from troop to troop. His wife's troop voted that no dads are allowed to go camping. Yet right down the road is a dad who is a Girl Scout leader.

 

I have no daughters but hope to volunteer with the Girl Scouts at some time.

 

I find some of the differences amazing. Our pack insists that parents stay for den meetings unless there is a pressing reason, then someone other then the Den Leader needs to be responsible for your child. Some packs don't do this. Our pack also is more open to moms being involved and going to campouts than other packs I've talked to.

 

I've heard of some Girl Scout troops that very seldom go outside and some that do a lot of outdoor type things. I guess it depends on the leaders.

 

I was shocked to hear that Girl Scouts leaders take kids camping without all the parents. It's all I can to deal with 8 boys for one hour! LOL

 

It is interesting the way Girl Scouts is girl led from the beginning, yet Cub Scouts are adult led. In the early days of Cub Scouts, an older Boy Scout lead the dens. Then it evolved into Den Mothers playing a bigger role, until eventually we had Den Leaders.

 

I have a Girl Scout book from the 1950's that shows at that time they had the rank progression like Boy Scouting --- Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class. Now there is not that rank focus. I have read books talking about how women do not view challenges as climbing a ladder but more with an attitude of "you had fun, you learned somethin, you gave it a try, that means you succeeded." Where for men, they must follow one path, not get sidetracked and must reach the top of the ladder or they have failed. I wonder if that's why the two different approaches to scouting are they way they are now and why the work. Hmmm...something to ponder in your spare moments.

 

[MomScouter]

We can take girls camping in GS as long as we have the correct ratio as outlined in Safety-Wise (similar to Guide to Safe Scouting) but I won't do it unless I have more parents than is required, especially with 1st-3rd graders! But by the time they are 3rd-4th grade they understand the rules, know they will have 'kapers' (jobs to do from collecting kindling to cleaning the latrine) so it gets a lot easier.

 

Although I don't believe people hear about it as much, GS has a 'Gold Award' that is every bit as demanding as Eagle. There is also a Silver for Cadettes, and now a Bronze for Juniors. So there is the option to advance in that sense. There's badges for everything from Car Care to Orienteering to Babysitting to Aerospace. There is also a program for adults called 'Daisys Cachet' that is a lot like Wood badge.

 

I don't know how a troop could prevent a Dad from going camping UNLESS the issue was lack of available facilities at a council camp. Men have to be separate from females on campouts but can certainly be leaders and go on outings. Some of the rules may seem bizarre until you research the reasoning behind them, and I do think every council is different.

 

I suspect that the GS troops that do not do much in the way of outdoor activities are that way due to lack of leader training. The GS outdoor training I took was very much like the Webelos outdoor training. Our girls love camping, hiking, nature study, etc. (probably because I do too!)

[sctmom]

What I meant by rank advancement is not the earning of badges and special awards like the Gold award (which is pretty impressive to me, I've seen the requirements) but the Second Class, First Class scenario.

 

About 20 years ago an elderly gentleman in our small town told me about the Girl Scouts when his daughter was young. I'm guessing this would have been in the 1930's or 40's. The town was small then too. There was an active Boy Scout troop who often camped in the nearby woods. The Girl Scouts wanted to go camping but none of the women would camp. This father took the Girls. He pitched his tent close enough he could hear them yell for help and left them alone. He said they loved it. They took care of their camp all by themselves but he was their in case they needed an adult.

 

Of course, things are so different now. But men in Girl Scouting is NOT new.

 

I know the Boy Scouts do a lot of community service but was very surprised and impressed with the amount done for EVERY badge for Cadettes and Seniors Interest Projects. As well as the amount of time spent on the Silver and the Gold Awards. There seems to be more of a focus on community service in Girl Scouting than in Boy Scouting. Just my opinion.

 

Glad to hear you are taking your girls outside. I've spoken to some women who said they dropped out of Girl Scouts at an early age because they were tomboys and wanted to go camping and carry a pocketknife. They were very bored with doing little craftsy thing that were a repeat of school.

 

[MomScouter]

Hi sctmom,

 

Yes I agree about the community service, there is a big focus in GS on doing this. When I was with the pack, we did service projects once a month but now that everything is boy led, it seems like a lot of the boys are interested in getting in the hours for Star, Life, etc. and do not go beyond that. Although I know if the boys in our troop were called on to help for anything, they'd be right on it!

 

We do plenty of the little craftsy stuff (they're 1st through 3rd graders after all!) But we also do lots of hiking and outdoor stuff as well as sports and scout skills.

[sctmom]

Our Cub pack does about 1 community service project each year, usually connected to Christmas. I wish there was more, but have not been in a position to make changes. I think all the scouts need to be more visible. And the kids at that age LOVE to help with anything.

 

[MomScouter]

When I was with the pack, we tried something to promote community service and it seemed to work. The boys were big on patches on the red vests so we started tracking community service hours and gave out a patch after I think 5 hours of service. After that, we gave out these little stars to be placed around the patch for each additional 5 hours of service. They enjoyed this. This motivated the pack to come up with projects each month. Some of the projects are big like the Scouting for Food drive, others are smaller like coloring dozens of eggs for local Easter egg hunts. My Webelos den planted a bunch of trees in a local preserve. One time the pack raked up the yard of an elderly women and they had a total of 60 bags of leaves! They had a blast doing this too.

 

Some of the things my Brownie troop has done: pet drive to deliver to local Humane Society as well as serve as hostesses for a local Humane Scoeity benefit dinner, collected toys for a womens shelter, planted flowers in several flower beds, one at the school the other at the township hall where we meet (the Boy Scout troop cleared out the ground and built the flower beds for us), put up bird feeders at local nature preserve, made tray favors for local nursing home and delivered them then went caroling at home. The kids love doing this stuff!

[purrrke1]

As a girl, I wanted to be a boy scout. My brother was... he got to go hiking and camping and cook outdoors and collect newspapers and play with a knife and a bow and arrow etc. etc.

 

As a Girl Scout leader, I try to make sure that my girls have an opportunity to do all of those things. It is the "girls" troop and they are to make the decisions on what we do and where we go. Leader is suppose to be resource person and "safety wise".

 

Our troop does tons of service projects. We just delivered 100 "love bugs" to a local nursing home hand delivered with a "happy valentines day " and a smile.

 

The boy scout troop that meets in same building just asked us to do another service project. Supply the food and serve it for their Blue and Gold banquet. Yes! I about fell over. Obviously we do not have the funds for such an endevor.

 

Girl Scouts Councils are very worried about being sued. They regulate to prevent it at every turn. Men are allowed to be troop leaders as long as there is a female who is also a co-leader. WHY? They are afraid a girl might accuse a scout leader of inappropriate behavior. Why do there have to be seperate facilities for a man while camping? Same Story.

 

The preacher at our church whose wife runs the day care & pre-school,stood in the hall with me one day and complained because he could not hug the children any more. I just would love to hug them all ,he said. But I can't because someone might construe that as inappropriate. How sad that a strong man with strong moral values have to second guess himself on wether a child needs a hug or not.

 

But can't you read the headlines if a parent accused him?