Can a Registered member be denied?

[jbroganjr]

Can a registered scouter, with an outstanding record, training and positive attitude be denied from joining a troop. This person is currently registered with a pack, won the district's cub scouter of the year award, been the pack leader for two years at resident camp for webelos, is an avid outdoorsperson, has earned a doctorate, been a Cub leader for 4 years, had the den grow from during the time of tenure (which goes against the norm).

The CC and SM did not want this person as an ASM, and suggested there may be a spot on the committee. Even informed this person about training in the fall '03. Person has been at every troop meeting since son bridged in Apr. but this person was informed by letter, not in person, etc.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

My first thought is that its not the Committee Chair or the Scoutmaster that decides who may be a scout leader or not, its the job of the Charter Organization Represetative to approve leadership applications. Then again, thats the process, I would imagine the COR will ask the opinions of the CC and SM about the appliant and if two thumbs go down, well, it would be tough for the COR to approve a leader over the other two's opinion even though its the COR say.

 

I guess the question is, why dont they want this person, paraphrasing Paul Harvey, I want to know, "... The rest of the story..."

[Bob White]

Yes

[jbroganjr]

Now the rest of the story...

maybe cause she is a women

and two, as the pack camp coordinator last year, there was a misunderstanding between the SM and a parent. The SM came home a day early from cub camp with his son and another boy. the other boys mom was not happy. the camp coordinator pointed out a pack ldrs meeting that the mom was upset and that the folks involved should talk to each other and straighten this out. TheSM interpreted this to be a personal attach on himself. Which it wasn't

[jbroganjr]

BW - chapter and verse would be nice here. How or what, is the guideline(s) behind the denial?

[Rooster7]

Bottom line - A chartering organization has the right to pick its own members and leaders. That also means they can deny membership to whoever they so chose (in their troop or pack, not the BSA). If the CO abdicates its responsibility to the CC and SM, then you're pretty much stuck with the results. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I understand it. So, it appears your best bet is to appeal to the COR.

[Bob White]

The Troop Committee Guide, Troop Committee Challenge Training, and the Shared Responsibilities Agreement that is part of the annual charter renewal.

 

Adult Leader approval is the authority of the Unit Committee Chair and either the Charter Organization Representative or the Charter Organization Executive Officer. The other adults have input as far as finding and recommending troop leadership but approval is in the sole authority of those I listed.

 

Just as National BSA can deny membership of any member nation-wide, the local Charter Organization has sole authority to deny membership within the unit.

 

No reasons are required. In addition, knowing that there is a personal conflict already existing between the SM and the ASM candidate it would be counter-produvtive to put either into the position of direct supervision over the other. The rational comprise was correctly offered to the person in question, to become a committee member rather than an ASM.

[jbroganjr]

Thank you everyone for the responses.

[jbroganjr]

BW - didn't read thru your last post. But this person was then shown the back door and the only conflict was one manufactured by the SM.

[OldGreyEagle]

In America, everyone has the right to be a horsebehind, even Scoutmasters. May not be keep with the spirit of the Boy Scout program, but if the COR doesnt approve a leaders application based in the Scoutmasters opinion or any other opinion, the leader-in-waiting is up the crick without a paddle.

 

But as my old sainted mother used to tell me after I came home crying the older boys wouldnt let me play, "... Why do you want to be with those who don't want you around..."

 

There still has to be more to the story.

 

PS

If the COR isnt allowed to deny applications to his/her own troop, why give them that responsibility in the first place?

[silver-shark]

I've got to ask this question because it is the case in our troop. Does your troop need more people on the commottee?

 

In our troop we have a SM and 11 ASMs in a troop of 49 scouts, but only 5 active committee members. Many of us ASMs have toyed with the idea of switching over to the committee, since we're doing the jobs unofficially already.

 

Also, our Unit Commisioner passed away 2 weeks ago, so one of us will probably have to fill that position.

 

Anyway... I'm just wondering...(This message has been edited by silver-shark)

[FScouter]

Silver-Shark

It is unfortunate that you lost your commissioner. Your district commissioner will surely work to put your troop with another commissioner. Unit commissioners usually have their hands full with the units assigned to them and aren't generally registered as a unit leader as well. If a commissioner does wear two hats, he certainly should not be assigned to the unit he is registered to.

[dsteele]

In response to the original question, Bob White's first post was the answer I wanted to post, but he beat me to the punch.

 

The simple answer is yes, but it seems some are looking for a bit more detail.

 

If you look at an adult application, you'll see that for a unit scouter, two approvals are required. Either the insitutional head must sign or the charter rep as his/her designee. The committee chairman must also sign it. Their signatures indicate approval for that specific position. This is why another application is required when switching positions.

 

No one can be forced to sign his/her approval for any reason. In the example given at the beginning of the thread, there could be a whole pile of reasons, and I don't have enough information to speculate. The question was more, can they do this, than why would they? The answer to the first part is a definitive yes. I don't have enough information to answer or even speculate on the second.

 

Fscouter-- I like your posts. They tend to be very much on target from what I've seen.

 

DS

[FScouter]

It is truly sad when a good scouter is made to feel unwelcome. A good commissioner can sometimes help to smooth things over. But if he is registered in the same troop he's commissioned to serve, it may be difficult for him to offer impartial advice and mediation.

 

Mr. Steele, your compliment is appreciated. I enjoy your participation in the discussions, particularly because of your point of view as a professional.

[shemgren]

I too am sadened by your loss of the Unit Commissioner.

 

The role of your deceased Unit Commissioner should be picked up by the Ass't District Commissioner or the District Commissioner until a new commissioner is selected. One of your current leadership should not accept this role, since the UC should have some aloofness to the unit to be effective.