Odd Ceremonies

[Eagle_23]

I was thinking today about the ceremonies in the OA. Beyond the Induction sequence there are other ceremonies used. I'm wondering if anyone has seen ceremonies used for anything outside of the norm. Not nesessarily inappropriate uses, just outside the norm?

[SR540Beaver]

Such as?

[shortridge]

You've got to give more specifics. This query is so vague it resides in the Castle of Obscurity on the Hill of Cloudiness in the Kingdom of Huuuuhhh?

 

What are you really getting at? I've only seen the standard ceremonies, callouts, AOLs and a weird sunrise Brotherhood recommitment event at a conclave, part ceremony, part can't-hear-what-the-guy-is-saying-because-he's-not-projecting-well thing.

[Trevorum]

Do you mean that secret thing we're not supposed to talk about to outsiders?

[Eagle92]

Don't know if I would call it odd, but these are some of the ceremonies I've done, coached, seen, or heard about.

 

Obviously the Tap Outs (I'm an old fogey you know )Call Outs, Pre Ordeal, Ordeal, Brotherhood, and Vigil.

 

But also Arrow of Light and Crossovers, Campfire Lighting, Vigil Re-dedication, Eagle, OA rededication, and Broken Arrow Ceremonies,

[BSA24]

I find all of the ceremonies in the OA to be odd.

 

Much like the membership policies, I find the OA's use of fake American Indian lore to be disturbingly old fashioned. I'd like to see OA reduced to a service organization that performs service within BSA in exchange for the sash, and I'd like for the OA to stop dressing boys up like fake Indians. A bunch of black and white kids dressed up in fake Indian garb mixed up from various nations (or non-existent nations) all pretending to be Spaghetti Western Hollywood-style deep voiced Indian chiefs around a fire - it's too 1950's for me. Flintstone's buffalo club. I think this is something BSA needs to ditch entirely.

 

I've been in the OA a long time, and the older I have gotten, the more embarrassing it is to see OA ceremonies, dancing, and drumming. It makes me blush. Yeah, there's always "that guy" who claims he is 25% Souix (he's not - he has blue eyes and white skin) or that the ceremonies are validated by real Indian ceremony teams (they are not) or that the Delaware Indians have approved of all of this (I met some who think it is very racist and really hate the chief that wrote the letter for BSA). There's always some rationalization, some justification as to why it is OK to "honor" the many hundreds of native nations of North America by teaching incorrectly how they behaved, dressing up like them, and then trying to do impressions of them during ceremonies.

 

I understand that it is not intentional mockery, I thought I was honoring people too when I was young and first inducted. But as time passes, and the number of actual red-skinned people I know grows around the country, the less I see this behavior as anything other than silly.

 

But I love the service aspect and the idea of an honor society. I just don't think Indian Lore and national honor society go together in the 21st Century.

 

[Eagle92]

BSA,

 

Must respectfully disagree with ya, Do some research on the history of the OA and how involved Native Americans were in the early years and you may be surprised, very surprised at their involvement and support of the OA. And you will discover Why they were so involved.

 

Now I admit I don't like the spaghetti Western Indians either. I prefer folks to do their homework and make regalia that is factual and specific. But that is both the historian and dancer in me.

 

In regards to blond haired,blue eyed Natives Americans, they do exist. Gotta remember that there was intermarriage going on, as well as assimilation of Native Americans into European American culture. Also gotta remember that for some nations,, the mother's tribal identity is passed down to the child. So if mom is Lakota, mixed blood son is Lakota.

[gsdad]

Wow, using fake Indian lore is racist, but calling real Native Americans red-skinned is not? My late grandmother who was born on a reservation in South Dakota thought it was fine. Then again maybe her Sioux blood didn't care if we insulted the Delaware people, or it was the white side of her brain talking.

 

I remember Unami making the switch from stereotypical Indian costumes to historically correct costumes for ceremonies and dance teams in the late 80's.

[BSA24]

I want to start a society within scouting that will use the traditions, dances, and songs of Africa. We will all dress up like Zulu, make shields with zebra skins and spears, and we will do Zulu dances.

 

Problems?

[Stosh]

I was thinking about maybe getting a Goth Society going. Uniforming shouldn't be a problem.

 

Stosh

[dennis99ss]

I am just gonna grab the popcorn and watch this one. BSA24 beware the wrath of the OA Gods that permiate this board. lol

 

 

 

 

[gsdad]

If the A in you screen name stands for Africa, that would be appropriate.

 

So, while we are dismantling the Indian Lore aspect of the OA, should we discontinue giving the use of the HOW as in HOW! HOW!?

[ScoutNut]

>>"Yeah, there's always "that guy" who claims he is 25% Souix (he's not - he has blue eyes and white skin)">"I want to start a society within scouting that will use the traditions, dances, and songs of Africa. We will all dress up like Zulu, make shields with zebra skins and spears, and we will do Zulu dances."

[SR540Beaver]

Oklahoma has one of the largest Native American populations in the US, if not the largest. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone with Native American ancestry. You find plenty of them in Scout troops and in the OA. I work with a man who is Cherokee and was the Chair of their Constitutional Convention and is very involved with their tribal politics. We've talked about OA. He has no problem. He and folks like him are who I'm concerned with offending. My white brothers in scouting who feel some sort of "guilt" over OA, don't concern me nearly as much.

[Eagle92]

I've met a lot of folks who had no problems with the OA. If you look up some older threads, I gave examples of folks who have helped Native Americans b/c of their involvement in the OA.

 

On a different note, some OA lodges in the section think my lodge has an unfair advantage as one of the AIA advisers, he's now the primary one if I hear correctly, is Lumbee and one of our singers is with Eastern Bull.