Rebuilding Order of the Arrow?

[SeattlePioneer]

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Does OA need to be reformulated? If so, how?

[sherminator505]

Does it need to be reformulated? Of course not! It didn't need to be rebranded either, but that's another thread.

 

Now the Order of the Arrow, as well as Scouting as a whole, does need a reminder of why it's here. The order was intended to be a society of honor campers, not some "National Honor Society." It was intended to promote Scout camping, not to provide more bling for uniforms. And its members were to put their units first, not to be "all OA, all the time."

 

Now when the lodge gets together, it really needs to remember the "cheerful" part of cheerful service! It shouldn't simply be "go to the camp, work our tails off, put on Indian costumes and dance around, and then leave." There should be some fun too, and just maybe the advisers need to remind the chiefs of this.

[BadenP]

From my own personal experience with four lodges I think that the main problem is that the OA is marketed or promoted very POORLY to the boys from the start. The second problem is that once the boys go through ordeal many lodges just do not have a fun and active enough program to keep them involved. While service is indeed an important part of the OA you need to also have some challenging outdoor events, and some just plain fun activities if you want to keep your members involved. The Indian costumes, customs, and dancing,IMO, should be reserved for special ceremonies and occasions and not used as a traveling entertainment troop for cub packs and the public. My .02 worth.

[desertrat77]

While OA is still active in parts of the BSA (as described in other threads), from my travels as a military guy, I see the OA in decline overall. No public sense of why it exists.

 

It would be nice to turn back the clock and make tougher cuts of who could join--and they should indeed be honor campers--but that era is long gone and not likely to be revived in this era of "everybody is a winner."

 

The good news: we don't need to re-formulate the OA. Rather, we need to go back and revisit, and embrace, what E. Urner Goodman said about brotherhood and cheerful service. The keys to OA's success are there--they are just buried under a 500 short tons of OA flaps.

(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[skeptic]

Yes, I have to agree with Desert; when electing actually was choosing someone the troop felt really deserved it. Many probably never even know that at one time there were limits on how many eligible could be elected based on how many met the minimum requirements and also on the size of the unit. And if I remember correctly, a scout only had one vote, not one for each eligible candidate. And of course, there were actual "tap outs", and the Ordeal was far stricter in holding candidates to the challenges.

 

I was a Life scout and 15 when I was tapped out. It really meant more then I think. But maybe it is just nostalgia.

[eaglescout1996]

This same conversation was had by a bunch of adults this weekend at Conclave. What would E. Urner Goodman say if he saw what the OA has become? The thought of Cheerful Service has left the minds of many.

 

I now serve in a large lodge, depending on what time of the year it is, we have betwen 1300 and 1800 dues paid Arrowmen. We also have between 10-12 events a year (counting Section Conclave), but we only get about 10% participation in every event. Some of it is conflicts of schedule (including SMs and Distict Committees who don't support the lodge) and some of it program. But, program lies with the youth. As an adult advisor, I can do only so much to support the youth, they have to make it work.

 

I do agree with those on the board...the OA has become lax in elections. I was elected as a youth under the "no more than 50% of eligible youth" could be elected, my father was elected in the early 60's as a youth, which I've heard was even more strict.

 

I will say this...I have had conversations with youth who have said that they thought the OA was supposed to be the "society of honor campers", and ask why are there so much dead weight among the youth. All I can say is that their troop thought they were worthy of the honor.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Eagle Scout,

 

 

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Suppose your chapter started scheduling a few terrific camping trips per year --- some fine adventure opportunities that were announced and signed up for at OA events and activities.

 

Get coverage of those events in council newsletters and such.

 

It seems to me that OA needs to spice up it's reputation among Scouts. What better way than doing some terrific camping?

[John-in-KC]

My two cents:

 

- Needs to be back under the National Camping Committee.

 

- Needs to return to being "The Honor Camping Society of the Boy Scouts of America."

 

- Needs to be open to all Venturers, given Outdoor Bronze (or Ranger, they can pick) and other camping standards. Drop the gender matter.

 

Then, each Lodge needs to understand it and it alone is responsible for generating an exciting program that causes youth to want to come attend events. Those events need to be service laden with fun.

[Eagle92]

My thoughts on this topic as it is near and dear to my heart.

 

1) Bring back the pre-1990s election method, i.e. a scout can only vote for half of those eligible max. I think that the current method has been more of a detriment, than a help.

 

2) You must mix play with work. Yes we are suppose to 'WORK, WORK, WORK," but all work and no play does tire people out, and think of the OA as the camp's "Slave labor corps." Whether the play is on the lodge or chapter level, you got to have some fun.

 

3) Visibility is a must. OA has got to be seen, outside of doign a few ceremonies for Cubs, ECOHs, and Camporees. Have the chapter do a display at the district scout show. Have a lodge set up at camporee. Do those camp promos. It's kinda sad when no one in a troop knows that the SM is not only a Vigil, but a past lodge chief and section officer. MUST GET VISABLE ( and yep I'm screaming this time around )

 

Ok off the soapbox.

[CubsRgr8]

As much as I respect the way it used to be, OA is now "Scouting's National Honor Society" and that isn't going to be reformulated anytime soon. Better to focus on why so many scouts find it boring and respond with ideas to improve OA programming.

 

What activities does your lodge offer that are popular with the youth? How does your lodge "show the Arrow" at Scouting events? Why are your Chapter meetings well attended?

[eaglescout1996]

IMO, we need to go back to the pre-1990's elections...in almost every single election I go out with a team, 90% or more of the eligible young men are elected. It seems more of a box to check off for he and his parents, than an honor. Our lodge puts through between 400-500 Ordeal candidates a year, and our biggest hurdles with QL every year are positive growth and Brotherhood conversion. We have great programs, although they can always been improved. Last Scout Show, Lodge Trading Post, Lodge display, two Tipis, dancers, Q&A on regalia....but I really believe the problem, nationwide, is two-fold.

 

1. Selection is too broad and we don't get the best honor campers.

 

2. Parents and youth, treat honors as things that must be collected or checked off, once they get one thing, they move on to the next.

 

Most kids just want the bling, to wear the flap to show they're in the OA. You can call me mean, but maybe we need the OA-UP out there to tell folks if they're not dues paying members of the lodge, they need to take off the flap...go get yourself the universal ribbon to show you were inducted into the OA....but you're not a member of the lodge if you don't pay your dues or participate.

[eaglescout1996]

Great example....

 

We had a mother of an 11 yo Scout argue with the SM because of the nights camping requirement. He was a cross over at 10.5, went through the "first year camper" program at an out of council camp, and became a 1st Class Scout by Christmas. When elections came about he wasn't put on the ballot by the SM, who said he didn't have the night camping. The mother through a huge fit because "they" went camping last month to get his last two nights. SM said it wasn't Boy Scout camping.

 

More and more do I see this happening.

 

We have one chapter that has a pre-ordeal meeting with the parents and youth, during which they lay out what the OA is and what we do. They mention that we have an obligation (of course they don't say what it is), and tell them if they can not commit to the values of the OA, don't bother coming out to the ordeal, although it is still your decision.

 

That chapter has one of the highest rates of participation in our lodge...the youth leadership and advisors have high standards....so they're doing something right.

[Oak Tree]

Over the psst few years I'd say our troop has elected maybe 50% of those who run. But we have a relatively low percentage of those eligible who choose to run - I'm not sure of the exact number, but it's going to be something like 25%. (so for example, maybe 30 eligible Scouts, 10 run, 5 elected).

 

When I ask the ones who don't run why they don't, they just look at me like I'm from some other generation or some other out-of-touch demographic. "Why would I?", they ask. "Not the Ordeal. Not dressing up like Indians. And I don't care about the sash or flap."

 

There's obviously a lot of troop culture that goes into this - if you have active OA members who are enjoying it, I'm sure more people are likely to run. Our OA members have only some very sporadic attendance. Still, that's the meaning of the "OA Brand" in their eyes - some Scouts who do a weird Ordeal thing and dress up like Indians. I'm sure if I told them that could also go do some service, that would really boost the numbers.

 

The ones who do stand for election seem to do it because of the recognition aspect, the same reason that people generally join honor societies everywhere.

 

My opinion - the honor would be much more attractive if it wasn't so strongly associated with the two items I mentioned. Other honor societies do not have day-long induction ceremonies. Also, boring us to death at summer camp with long monotonous dance numbers is something I'd get rid of, and even the induction ceremony could do with a fair bit of shortening.

 

I think I'd add something that makes the OA look more fun. Include some kind of public benefit that only the OA guys get to do - an OA motorboat, or an OA air-conditioned lounge, or an OA machine gun down at the range, or something. Even if you have fun chapter meetings and a fun conclave, you need something that the non-members can see.

[Eagle92]

'96,

 

You're not in Croatan, "WE'RE #1...17" by any chance as that descibes one of our chapter's too.

 

'8,

 

Yes we are Scouting's Honor Society, although Sea Scouts, Cub Scouts, and Venturers are not allowed to be in it, but part of the problem is that I too have seen being elected into the OA as a check off. Heck I had one SM upset with me and the election/camp promo team, b/c we let them know what we do and what we ask of them once they join. I hate to say it, but it appeared that he too saw it as a check off item, and not something that is meaningful and has some responsibility.

 

What have I seen done. Chapter fellowships, chapter fundraising (this was fun in that the OA was teaching or had members workign on Indian Lore MB), Chapter work days (ok yes more work, but with a FUN twist, gotta be there to see it), chapter canoe trip, chapter Christmas party, Chapter Pool party and cook out, chapter tour of local military base, chapter candidate orientation and social, Lodge fellowship, CONCLAVE promotion, NOAC promotion.

 

But the #1 best chapter activity was a Lazer Tag Lock in, prior to lazer tag being banned by BSA. CA owned the LT arena, and they had an all nite blast. Wish we could do that now, as I know how much fun it was, and what a great team building exerecise it was, when my camp staff in the UK did that.

[eaglescout1996]

'92, I'm in a Section over, down in GA.

 

It can work, and the Chapter I speak of, does do fundraising and lots of fellowship. My problem is that I'm in a urban/suburban low-income district with low scout participation in the first place. None of the Scoutreach units can elect anyone because they do not camp enough....most of the little participation I do get, comes from two troops...one troop has tons of ordeal members, but after that weekend, we never see them again.

 

Some boys just don't like the Native American events, but we have athletic events, leadership opprotunities, and service to go along with singing, druming, dancing, and ceremonies.

 

(actually two Sections over, I thought Croatan was in Dixie)(This message has been edited by eaglescout1996)