Improper selection of scouts for OA

[DLister]

Basementdweller wrote:

 

"had a neighboring Scout Master APPOINT his first year Grandson to the OA. he was a tenderfoot."

 

Anyone who's seen a similar situation, how did the election team/chapter/lodge allow it to happen? What, if anything, was done about a scout who was "selected" without meeting the requirements or even having actually been elected by the members of the troop?

[The Blancmange]

When the OA election team comes to our meetings, they usually ask the SM which scouts are eligible for election. The election team does not do anything to verify that representation, either for rank or camping nights. So, if we had an unscrupulous SM, he could easily have a brand new tenderfoot placed on the ballot.

 

Realistically, there isn't much the team could do to verify this. Sure, they could look at their rank patch, but how many scouts have you seen who don't promptly get their new rank patches sewn on. I suppose later on, someone from the lodge could compare the list to council records, but I have no idea if this actually happens. Camping nights you pretty much have to take their word.

[Eagle92]

I've seen some things, and found out some things too.

 

I discovered after the fact that a SM told his troop how to vote so that everyone eligible could get it. This was using the old election process, and he figured out that if you had an odd number of candidates, and an even number of scouts voting, it could be possible to get everyone in. It happened, and I found out at the Ordeal when he talked about what he did. Not happy about it but it was too late. And this was when I was a youth member of the OA

 

Same SM tried to remove an elected candidate that he approved prior to the election. He didn't think the scout was worthy, didn't think the troop would elect him in to begin with, and wanted the team to remove his name once he did get elected. When they refused, he wanted me to do it as chapter adviser. When I refused and stated that he had his chance prior to the election, he cursed me out.

 

I've had it where the troop decided to do their own elections and then turn in the papwork. SM should have known better b/c he was a prior chapter adviser. We rejected the paperwork, and had the team redo the election, with different results.

 

I also had an SM submit names to me. No dice, we sent the election team to do it.

 

Recently we had a unit do their own election and submit the PW directly to the lodge without anyone knowing about it until either the Call Out or the Ordeal, I don't remember which. They went through, but the unit leaders have been informed, and an eye is being kept on the unit for the near future.

 

 

(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[SR540Beaver]

DLister,

 

Around here, we take the election process seriously....and I'm speaking as an Adviser, not an ASM. I've dealt with two situations this year.

 

I send out an extremely detailed email to the SM's at election time explaining the whole process from top to bottom. I attach several documents to this email. One is a document listing youth and adult membership requirements. Another is the adult nomination form. Then an excel spreadsheet that is a ballot. You enter the names in the first ballot and it autofills on the other three ballots on the page. Print what you need and cut. The last document is the actual election report form so they can see what needs to be filled out concerning things like number of active scouts.

 

One of my teams held an election at a troop and everything went fine. Later, I get an email from the SM praising the job the team did, but wanted to know if it is possible to have a re-do. Why? Well, we have two 17 year old Eagle Scouts who were on the ballot that we adults wanted to be elected and they weren't. Instead, we had some younger scouts with spooty records get elected that shouldn't have. Did you read my detailed email? Did you not understand that the final requirement is the SM placing deserving boys onthe ballot? Do you not realize that you are the final gateway to the ballot? Kids are pretty honest when the voting process is explained to them. Are your older boys active at all? Do they have anything to do with the younger scouts or are they jerks to them? Kids have a different view of the troop and the boys in the troop than adults. I told him the election is the election and the results are the results. The only time we would do a re-do is if we can be shown that the process was subverted in some way or improperly conducted. The SM had to tell the influential parents of these two Eagle Scouts tought luck.

 

The second issue was a troop that held their own election and asked us to do a Call Out ceremony for them. Do what? You can't do your own election, it has to be a trained OA election team that conducts the election. Then you can attend the Chapter Call Out. Seems the DE (Vigil) told them this would be no problem. I've had a little talk with him.

[piman]

in my troop the prior scout master had only allowed 3 camping trips a year, including summercamp, when he quit a new guy took over and he is trying very hard to make a better troop. the last scoutmaster had forbiden the OA from participating in this troop.

 

when the OA came for the efirst election in 20 years no one was elegible. none of us had enough camping. with 4 non summer camp nights a year it would have been pretty hard.

 

so my scoutmaster allowed every one who he though had put in a good effot, and was 1st class to go up for election. my self included.

 

had he no no one could have gone up for election.

[Basementdweller]

there was no election held.

 

The rep showed up and the SM handed him the name. I was not at the tap out or ordeal....but I saw the Grandson at the meeting with a lodge flap and sash on.

[acco40]

I've transported my son to various troops to help with OA elections. I've been a Scoutmaster for many troop elections. If the checks and balances are followed, the youth OA "visitor" makes sure he records all the boys up for election, including name, rank, adddress, etc. then records votes. Nothing magical about odd or even voters.

 

If things are not followed (because someone uses "common sense" and decides that this is another BSA "rule" that doesn't need to be followed just because it states something in a guidebook and they like freedom ), well "stuff" happens.

[Crew21_Adv]

DLister,

 

Greetings!

 

Regarding your question. I've never seen a similar situation happen like that.

 

It wouldn't surprise me to learn a very (very, very) small percentage of Arrowmen have been appointed instead of elected (I hope far, far less that 1 percent). I'm glad that almost all BSA troops do abide by the election guidelines.

 

But let's not try to shame or differential those Arrowmen/Scouts. They just camp, and are good Scouts. It would have been their Scoutmaster; meaning well, but stretching the guidelines.

 

Hopefully this young Tenderfoot/Arrowman in Basementdwellers neighboring troop, grows to become a Life Scout then Eagle Scout, and helps his troop, and then staffs his local camporee, and then staffs the local summer camps. And by doing so, he earns his Arrowman sash. The path is there, it is up to the young Scout now.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[SR540Beaver]

Basement,

 

Then the election team didn't do their job. With my election teams, any SM trying to hand a name over without an election would be told that a valid election must be held following the official election procedures. If he refused, they would leave. That boy's name would not be turned into the Lodge as a candidate for Ordeal. When he showed up at the registration line at Ordeal, he would be turned away as he was not a candidate. If he somehow got his hands on a flap and sash, he would still be turned away at the registration line for any OA event. People were asleep at the swithc at the Chapter and Lodge level to allow this to happen in the case you sited.

[Basementdweller]

Well an ASM resigned over it....I heard what had happened from him when I asked him after seeing the kid at a lodge meeting. The kid is a punk and when I was a member of the Pack he used to beat up the tigers and was the reason we left.

 

DE, COR and the now SM was CM at the time refused to eject the boy for assaulting the other scouts...... Bloody noses and such....... the SM is an Elder in the CO and what he says goes according to the DE, I attempted to file the paper work with him and nothing happened. We left.....

 

That is another story.

 

 

Beaver.....been involved with the Troop for 4 years now.....I have never ever seen or heard of an OA election team. Just that simple. Not saying there isn't one, just never had one visit our troop.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[SR540Beaver]

Basement, is your Lodge holding Ordeals? If so, where did the candidates come from? Someone, somewhere is holding elections. My council has 11 districts I believe and we cover a quarter of the state. Obviously the urban areas with dense populations have the most active chapters with ceremony and election teams. We have one chapter in a rural district where the only member is the Chapter Adviser. He is trying to get some movement, but is meeting with resistance from troops holding elections. OA is just a distant memory for people in his area. Could it be that you are in a district that is largely inactive and there are no youth to run elections?

[Basementdweller]

Typically our elections tap outs and ordeals are held at and during summer camps.