Should I reactivate my membership?

[nolesrule]

Eagle92, one might argue that's what the flaps are for. :-)

 

And I was just giving the "by the book" answer. I almost always carry my sash with me when I'm in uniform. never know when I might need it. One year at University of Scouting, I stumbled into supporting a Brotherhood Ceremony after the close of events.

[Eagle92]

Norule,

 

 

I'd agree with that BUT in my lodge the flaps are restricted, you need to do 7 hours of cheerful service AS A MEMBER (caps for emphasis) in order to get one. While the lodge does have a 'trader" flap with no restrictions, no one i ssuppose to wear it nor do they want to wear it as it is rather plain compared to the regular flaps. Unfortunately the new members do not get a flap. They get their HB, sash, and dangle. If they want a flap, they have to buy a trader, which isn't suppose to be worn.

 

One good thing about national's no distinct borders: new members can get a flap as soon as they go to another ordeal instead of waiting to get Brotherhood. ECM didn't want to produce an Ordeal flap, as they wanted folks to get Brotherhood. One reason why when one of my lodge's Ordeal flaps from the past goes on EBAY, they are pretty high $

 

I disagree with the above, and encouraged my new member to wear a trader flap if they wanted to, even though it's no suppose to be worn.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[nolesrule]

That flap policy just seems to me counter-productive. I don't mind the idea of certain "work flaps" having to be earned, but it's no wonder your lodge has an issue of visibility.

[Eagle92]

Lodge didn't have a visibility problem, just the chapter. At the time we were the smallest chapter. HEHEHEHEH not any more....

 

 

In reference tp the flaps, I too do not like the policy and kept talking to those who could change it to do so. It kept getting brought up and voted down at almost every LCM, to the point some folks were getting upset it was kept being voted on. I think we finally had enough votes to change the policy, but national announced the no distinct border policy, and in protest the LCM voted to keep the restrictions. The proposal was to only allow flap purchase per lodge event. The entire lodge had to vote on the matter, and kept the restrictions of 7 hours of work. Luckily with only one flap border now, they can get their flap before Brotherhood. And I do know a few folks who try and gift flaps to new chapter members.

[SeattlePioneer]

When I was Scoutmaster (1982-1987) troop OA members wore their sash at troop courts of honor. It helped make OA membership visible. Perhaps that troop custom violated OA rules at the time. I don't recall such a restriction being discussed as part of the Ordeal event.

 

 

Now I'm hearing in this thread that wearing a sash at a regular Cub Scout Pack meeting would be frowned upon. Too bad ---wearing the sash at such events would help promote Boy Scouts and would be my main reason for reactiviting my OA membership.

 

Probably not worth while with that restriction.

[clemlaw]

I'm not a card-carrying member of the Uniform Police, so I'm not sure exactly what "the book" has to say. When I was a Scout in about the same era, we only wore our sashes at OA events, although I don't really see anything wrong with wearing it at a COH.

 

In fact, I think in my troop, where OA elections were held at summer camp, the arrowmen put on their sashes a few hours before the actual election. (As far as I remember, the election was conducted completely by arrowmen in the troop, and I don't think there was anyone who came specially from the lodge or chapter.)

 

But I think a COH is very different, because at a Boy Scout COH, the majority of Scouts there will probably be eligible for OA membership within a year or so. So it's a reminder of an honor for which they will soon be eligible. And more importantly, they will (hopefully) be able to see that the guys who give cheerful service are the ones wearing a red arrow. So it seems like a reasonable reminder for them to keep giving cheerful service, and know that they will be recognized for it if they do.

 

When my Tiger Cub son saw my sash, he said it was "cool", and I guess it is. But it's at least six years or so until he will be eligible, so it's not really a carrot that can be held out to him, unlike many other awards that he can get in the forseeable future. So it's not really an incentive, and I don't think I should wear it just because it's cool, even if it is. And besides, I already have a cool flap on my pocket, and last night to the B&G, I wore a cool temporary patch from the Fall Fellowship. I need to be careful so I don't look too cool.

 

>>>>So Crossovers, ECOHs, Call Outs etc all Arrowman are encouraged to wear their sash.

[DLister]

SeattlePioneer - Just to clarify, because you successfully completed the Ordeal you are entitled to wear the universal arrow ribbon on your uniform and the sash when appropriate for the rest of your life. Being a dues-paid member of your council's lodge entitles you to wear the pocket flap to show membership in the lodge. If your lodge is interested in helping support the Cub Scout program, the Northeast Region has developed some great material, available at http://northeast.oa-bsa.org/resources/cub-scout-resources.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Dlister,

 

 

That's an interesting link, Dlister, although I had to doctor it up a bit to get it to work.

 

It appears that OA takes an expansive view of just what OA activities are:

 

Here are some ways

to get involved:

Support a Cub Scout event

with fun activities

Host a council Cub Scout

recruiting day

Serve as a Den Chief for a

local pack

Promote Webelos-to-Scout

transitions in your district

Serve on a camp promotions

team for Cub Scout summer

activities

 

 

 

http://northeast.oa-bsa.org/images/stories/cub_resources/cubscoutinvolvementpromo.pdf

 

 

So perhaps if I'm doing one of these activities I would be entitled to wear the OA sash while I am Cubmaster too.

 

 

My theory is that wearibng the sash at pack meetings and perhaps some other activities will help promote Boy Scouts to Cub Scouts and Cub Scout parents. It sounds like I would be justified wearing the sash at pack meetings since I'm promoting Cub Scouts during those meetings as a matter of course.

 

From time to time I would be explaining the relationship between the sash, Boy Scouts and OA.

 

 

Does that sound reasonable?

[Eagle92]

As I noted in another thread on this topic, wording in the OAHB on when to wear the OA sash was changed in the late 1970s, early 1980s and is more ambiguous IMHO. Arrowman are allowed to wear the sash with the dress uniform, i.e. grey trousers, white shirt, blue blazer and tie, and you wouldn't wear that in the field.

 

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

SeattlePioneer,

 

Like I said, an Arrowman's first responsibility is to his unit. Once an Arrowman, always an Arrowman. As long as you are a dues paying member to your Lodge, you can wear your Lodge's flap. Most Cub Scouters won't have a Lodge flap unless they were OA as a youth like you. The flap alone will cause kids to ask what it is. Part of an Arrowman's responsibility to his unit is to promote camping and summer camp. As an Arrowman and a former Boy Scout, you have the skills and knowledge to camp. As Cubmaster, you are in a position to promote Pack and Webelos Den camping. You have a pretty good sized Council I believe. If they are anything like ours, they will have spring and fall Cub weekend camping programs as well as Cub/Webelos resident camp in the summer. Encourage your den leaders to promote it and attend. I know a good number of Packs that camp in addition to the Council provided opportunities. Instead of an indoor graduation in May, they do it at one of the Council properties and make it a one or two night campout.

 

My comment about helping with crossovers is that some of the "shock" of camping and sleeping in a tent is alleviated if they begin camping as Cubs. Even though mom and dad do all the heavy lifting of setting up camp, they become accustomed to sleeping, eating and playing outdoors. Crossing over to a Boy Scout Troop doesn't become some big, scary, unknown thing. They look forward to getting to camp more and become skilled at it. This helps Troops get and retain Scouts.

 

My home Troop is very good about reaching out to any Webelos Den in our district who wants to go camping. Oddly enough, my Troop makes up the bulk of the active boys in the OA Chapter (I'm Chapter Adviser) and many of our OA boys staff the Cub camps and daycamps.

[nolesrule]

"The Book" states (to paraphrase) that the sash is worn when participating in an OA event (chapter and lodge meetings and weekends, section event, NOAC, service corps, etc.) or when acting as a representative of OA or performing service as a member of the OA.

 

I don't have an issue with less strict than by the book, within reason. As for a Court of Honor, I think it would be more appropriate to wear the merit badge sash (for youth only, obviously) than the OA sash as it is a troop event, unless there is also a callout taking place.

[DLister]

SeattlePioneer - If you were doing one of those activities as part of your lodge's program to support Cub Scouts then by all means wear the sash. In the role of Cubmaster though, personally I don't think it'd be appropriate. If you feel more promotion is needed for Boy Scouts, maybe the local troops need to do a better job at marketing their program to the Cubs.

[SeattlePioneer]

You are probably right, Dlister.

 

Not worth reactivating my membership in that case is the bottom line for me.

[Eagle92]

I must respectfully disagree with Dlister.

 

If you are an Arrowman, yes your primary duty is to your unit, so normally you don't wear the sash.

 

But if you are doing something OA related, or attending an event that the OA is working and you are helping out, then by all means wear the sash.

 

I'll give ya some examples.

 

Last nite I promoted CSDC at my pack's BnG. Camp promo is an OA function, and the video has one of our flaps in it. I wore my sash.

 

At the council cub family campout, the chapter agreed to let the adults attending run two events since it was the same weekend as fellowship. Yep the two cub scout leaders in the OA wore our sashs during the two events.

 

In three weeks, the OA is helping out with our Webeloree. Guess what I will be wearing part of the time, yep the sash.

[DLister]

"If you are an Arrowman, yes your primary duty is to your unit, so normally you don't wear the sash.

 

But if you are doing something OA related, or attending an event that the OA is working and you are helping out, then by all means wear the sash."

 

That's pretty much what I meant, but I guess I didn't express it well enough.

 

It also seems like an earlier point I made was lost in the discussion. Once an Arrowman, always an Arrowman, so whether or not someone has paid their lodge dues has no bearing on if they can wear their sash. As to when to wear the sash, ultimately it's a personal decision. I might give my opinion in a public discussion about when it's appropriate but it's only my opinion and not national policy.