Vice Chief for Vigil

[Gary_Miller]

SR540Beaver, "Yet it appears that more than my Lodge uses the title. I don't see how it will hurt anything in the grand scheme of things."

 

Here is how it hurts in the grand scheme of things.

 

When the term "Vigil Chief" is used for any position other than during the Vigil ceremony. There is a perceived perception that Vigil Honor connotes a separate membership or grouping. When is reality it no more than an honor bestrode on a "Arrowmen who, by reason of exceptional service, personal effort, and unselfish interest, have made distinguished contributions beyond the immediate responsibilities of their position or office to one or more of the following: their lodge, the Order of the Arrow, Scouting or their Scout camp."

 

An because in most lodges a youth selected for vigil on average only has one year left in the lodge before they head of to college and other endeavors. It leaves a grouping of adults who form a good old boys club. Who start acting like they are more important than the youth. Many of which seem to forget what it means to be a "Vigil Honor Member" in the order.

 

When this grouping develops it can lead to "the nominating committee to be(coming) a committee of the whole involving all or substantially all Vigil Honor members of the lodge." which is something that the Guide for Officers and Advisors states should not happen " Nor is the Vigil Honor nomination process to be one in which the Vigil Honor members of the lodge, as a group, determine who is selected."

 

The way the term/position is used in some lodges it takes one of the most important responsibilities a Lodge Chief has with in the lodge that of selection of the Vigil Honor Nominating committee. The Guide Book does not say the Vigil Chief selects the committee and that the Vigil Chief is the committee chair.

 

It says "The lodge chief (not the Vigil chief) appoints a Vigil Honor nominating committee chairman and committee members composed of youths who have been approved by the lodge adviser and Scout executive. The lodge adviser appoints one adult adviser in consultation with the lodge chief and staff adviser. The chairman and committee members are usually Vigil Honor members; however, any youth member of the lodge may serve

on the committee, provided that he is not eligible to receive the Vigil Honor. A committee of five to 10 youths has been found effective in many lodges. The key is to keep the committee to a manageable size, yet large enough to complete its task. The committee should be of sufficient size so that its members will collectively be aware which Arrowmen have been the leaders and workers in the lodge."

 

No where in the Guide Book will you find the term Vigil Chief or Vice Chief for Vigil. Therefore the term should not be used for anything except the Vigil Ceremony.

(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

[John-in-KC]

Let me make this real simple.

 

Money talks, bull**** walks. If the Silver Beaver or the Vigil Honor can bring in a major donation, the youth need to learn an important life lesson: When the boss, talks, they STFU and say "Yes, Sir."

 

The Scouters who are being considered for Vigil are investing hard sweat equity and cold hard cash into their Councils. Lots of time advisers forget that, and youth members have yet to confront that life lesson being shoved where their suns do not shine.

 

Or do they think their staff scholarships grow on trees?

 

Cynical? Mebbe

 

Realistic? Yeah.

 

 

[Gary_Miller]

John-in-KC, "Let me make this real simple.

 

Money talks, bull**** walks. If the Silver Beaver or the Vigil Honor can bring in a major donation,"

 

Except its the youth in the OA who are providing the many hours of service opening and closing camps, conducting AOL ceremonies, Staffing day camps, and council camps, as well as donating money to the council programs such as camper ships and James E. West awards. In our lodge alone in the last year had donated over $4k to these programs.

 

John-in-KC, "the youth need to learn an important life lesson: When the boss, talks, they STFU and say "Yes, Sir."

 

Its the other way in the OA the adults need to learn a life lesson, which is youth are very capable of running their own programs and making the important discussions within that program. In which case its the adults that need to learn that the youth are the boss, and when the boss talks they STFU and say "Yes, Sir what can I do to help." Anything less than that and the advisor is just in the way of progress.

 

 

John-in-KC, "The Scouters who are being considered for Vigil are investing hard sweat equity and cold hard cash into their Councils."

 

In most cases I would say, Yep. But I've seen some cases that would make you wonder.

 

John-in-KC' "Lots of time advisers forget that, and youth members have yet to confront that life lesson being shoved where their suns do not shine."

 

Yep, lots of time advisors forget who really is in charge of the OA, and when they do it causes head aches and heart ache for the youth who tries to fulfill his responsibilities but has to over come the hurdle of an advisor who don't understand the role of a Lodge Chief.

 

John-in-KC, "Or do they think their staff scholarships grow on trees?"

 

What staff scholarships?

 

John-in-KC "Cynical? Mebbe

 

Realistic? Yeah."

 

Backwards in practice? Defendantly.

(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

[John-in-KC]

Lest we all forget, the SE is responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen in a Council. That's why he's supreme chief of the fire, outranking the Lodge Chief.

[Eagle92]

One thing that got me thinking, maybe the Vigil Chair also does the role of AS in the Vigil Ceremony SOOOO

 

It would be appropriate to call him the VVC?

[Gary_Miller]

John-in-KC, "Lest we all forget, the SE is responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen in a Council. That's why he's supreme chief of the fire, outranking the Lodge Chief."

 

Yes and SE's have been fired for not supporting the youth of the Lodge.

 

Believe it or not the Youth in the OA talk with each other around the country. The support group they have at the region and national level would surprise you.

[Gary_Miller]

Eagle92, "One thing that got me thinking, maybe the Vigil Chair also does the role of AS in the Vigil Ceremony SOOOO

 

It would be appropriate to call him the VVC?"

 

Except there is no such position as Vigil Chair. The proper title would be Chairman of the Vigil Selection Committee, who serves at the pleasure of the Lodge Chief.

 

Using your logic would mean that the OA ceremony team member who does the role of AS at the Brotherhood Ceremony and Ordeal ceremony would appropriately be called. The Brotherhood Vice Chief and the Ordeal Vice Chief. Now that would be silly they are only playing a role in a ceremony. They are just members of the ceremony team which is usually lead by the VC of Ceremonies.

[Eagle92]

Gary,

 

Just a possible explaination that's all.

 

As for an SE being fired for not supporting the OA, could you give some more info as I have never heard of this being done, and wish it would have been done for one SE I knew. PM me with the details if need be.

[BrotherhoodWWW]

Good job Gary! The OA is so important to the makeup of our organization that Each Lodge Chief is by default a member of the council board. Each Chapter Chief should be a member of theif District Committee. Handing out awards such as Silver Beaver and Vigil Honor for monetary reasons is very wrong, makes me sick to my stomach actually. We have the James E. West knot for that.