Camping requirements

[BartHumphries]

So it appears that one of the requirements to be an OA member is to have gone camping in the last year -- 15 days/nights and a consecutive 6 day/night trip. LDS troops have been asked by our church leaders to not camp on Sunday, so the most we could do would be 6 day/5 night (Monday morning to Saturday evening). Does this mean that it's sort of impossible for an LDS scout/scouter to become an OA member?

[BartHumphries]

I don't see how to edit that previous post, so I'll just add on to it. It seems that the form (for brevity) listed 6 days/nights instead of the actual requirement of 6 days/5 nights according to http://www.oa-bsa.org/programs/ttr/ttrsupportpak.pdf which is good to know. My scoutmasters never told any of us about the Order of the Arrow and I've been wondering whether or not I should tell any of my current scouts about it. If they wouldn't be able to join anyway then there really wouldn't have been a point in telling them about it. 15 days/nights of camping and one 6 consecutive day/5 night campout is definitely doable.

[shortridge]

Definitely tell them! It's a great experience. Get in touch with your local chapter chief and ask him to send an elections team.

 

The actual requirement is:

 

"After registration with a troop or team, have experienced 15 days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The 15 days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps."

 

So it's even easier than you think - it's within two years, not just one.

[NC Scouter]

This thread is very timely for me. Is there a consensus about what qualifies as resident camping?

 

A week of summer camp would count. So would the Jamboree. But how about 10 days on the trail at Philmont? Seems odd to me that BSA's premier high adventure site would not count, but the scouts were not in residence at any one campsite the required 5 nights.

 

Believe it or not we have two scouts for whom this is a real question. Both attended summer camp in '09 but not in 2010, so their typical resident camp experience will be >2yrs past by the time we have our next OA election in March. They also both just got to First Class in the early summer in time to go to Philmont this year although one has been in the troop four years and the other three. (Yes, yes, I know ..., those are stories for another time.)

[shortridge]

Philmont, or a similar HA trek where you aren't "resident" but instead moving around, doesn't seem to count for the long-term resident camp requirement. But it could count for the other camping nights.

 

One misconception out there is that long-term resident camping must be done at a council-run camp, and that's not so. A troop-run camp, approved by the council, also would count.

 

From the OA:

 

It does not say that the resident camp must be at a Boy Scout owned or operated facility. If the national Order of the Arrow committee had wanted to say that, they would have. The language used was very carefully composed. If a troop runs their own long-term resident camp, "under the auspices and standards" of the BSA, it qualifies. The BSA does have very explicit standards for a resident Boy Scout camp, requiring much more than just a week long campout.

[Eagle92]

My understanding is that attendance at any of the HA bases does count as long term camping as you are a "resident" of the HA base. need to check at home in the book to verify, but on elections teams I've been on and have advised, Philmont and FL Sea Base counted (Sorry N Tier, only met one person who went their,and they were a staffer).

[NC Scouter]

Eagle92, what is "the book" are you referring to? Thanks.

[Eagle92]

Ok Guide to inductions don't have the info I'm looking for, but national OA site helps http://www.oa-bsa.org/misc/basics/

 

After registration with a troop or team, have experienced 15 days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The 15 days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. (emphasis added) The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps.

 

HA bases do have national standards that they must meet in order to be accredited. So I would consider it safe to say they count as long term camping.

 

Also this site has some more info

http://www.oa-bsa.org/qanda/qa-52.htm

 

 

Q/A: Camping Requirement Interpretation

Q: Who decides what camping activities qualify for the camping requirement needed for election to the Order of the Arrow?

 

A: With the camping requirement, as with all other eligibility requirements, it is the Unit Leader's job to interpret whether a Scout has met the requirement.

 

As stated in the Guide for Officers and Advisers (#34997A, 1999 revision, page 20):

 

"Unit Leader Approval. To become eligible for election, a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout must be registered with the Boy Scouts of America and have the approval of his unit leader prior to the election. The unit leader must certify his Scout spirit (i.e. his adherence to the Scout Oath and Law and active participation in unit activities). The unit leader must also certify that the nominee meets all specified requirements at the time of this annual election."

 

Other than defining the length of time needed for a camping activity to be considered a long-term camp*, the National Order of the Arrow Committee leaves the interpretation of the camping requirement to the unit leader.

 

* A "long-term camp" is one consisting of at least six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping. A "short-term camp" is anything less than that.

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

NC,

Guide to Inductions. I forgot it's available online, and checked there when I had a chance.

[nldscout]

NC Scouter

 

The answer is doeas your SM consider Philmont long term camping? There is no yes or no answer, remember what it says in the OA guide

 

"With the camping requirement, as with all other eligibility requirements, it is the Unit Leader's job to interpret whether a Scout has met the requirement."

[CalicoPenn]

I think most people would accept time at a high adventure base for the long term camp requirement. Resident doesn't neccessarily mean remaining in one place the whole time - it means that Scouts aren't going home at night and coming back the next day. It really delineates the difference between day camp and non-day camp.

 

"Believe it or not we have two scouts for whom this is a real question. Both attended summer camp in '09 but not in 2010, so their typical resident camp experience will be >2yrs past by the time we have our next OA election in March."

 

You can check my math/calendar skills, but it would seem to me that if an election in held in March 2011, then summer camp 2009 would be within the two-year time frame (assuming that summer camp is held after March 2009). I see it as: March 2009 to March 2010 = Year 1. March 2010 to March 2011 = Year 2. Anything done after March 2009 would count as part of the 2 years. Don't shortchage yourself by declaring that years are 2010 and 2011. If you're holding election in March 2011 and counting 2011 as Year 2, then you're only counting 15 months as 2 years, and not 24 months which is how I would count 2 years.

[NC Scouter]

Duh. Good catch Calico Penn. I'm embarrassed. But thanks to all for your replies nonetheless.

 

I agree with the interpretation that it means Scouts aren't going home at night and coming back the next day, plus of course the distinction versus short term or weekend camps.

[bacchus]

Bart,

You might also make note that it isn't necessarily against the rules for us LDS to be in the woods on a Sunday. The rule is no "travel" on Sunday. So for example if you are on a 4-day campout over a 4-day weekend, and day 3 is a Sunday, you are within the rules. Definitely make sure the Bishop knows and approves, but it's doable. Also, if you are in the woods on Sunday, the activities are going to be different than other days, i.e. you might have a sacrament meeting, and other quiet activities, maybe even a fireside. But you would not go to the archery range, or canoeing.

[John-in-KC]

Key point to the OP:

 

It's a two year limitation on time for camping.

 

Even one day a month, you're going to get a youth member to eligibility. Also, M-S counts as six days on my fingers and toes.

[Narraticong]

I know we do our best to follow the "rules", just as we should. There are reasons for the various membership requirements for our Order. The number of days and nights camping and need for a "resident camp" would seem to stem from the concept of "Honored Campers" and the goal of supporting our Council camps. In other words, we are looking for Scouts who by what they have already done might be expected to be an asset to the Order. So, I question whether the exact number of days and nights is really the important measurement. Much is left to the discretion of the Scoutmaster. And of course, the final measurement is left to the boys. I guess, if extenuating circumstances might be the cause of a worthy Scout being eligible or not, as a Scoutmaster I might make a judgment call in favor of the Scout.