No OA Flap=not involved?

[ctbailey]

I saw this post from another uniform post, and it got me a little bothered.

 

If a veteran scouter is not wearing an OA flap, should you assume that scouter is not involved?

 

If I understand correctly, in order to become an adult member of the OA, you must be asked. One can not simply "join" the OA.

 

If a scouter isn't wearing the flap, that doesn't automatically make that scouter any less involved. To assume that only the "most involved" scouters are also OA only continues the concept that the OA is elitist.

[artjrk]

I don't necessarily equate Being Involved with Being in OA. I know too many very involved leaders who are not in OA due to the fact they cannot take the time to spend a week at camp (an OA requirement here for adults) Heck I haven't been able to go to camp in five years due to the fact that I'm hourly and can't afford to take a week off WITH NO PAY and I am the Scoutmaster. But this doesn't keep me from being over involved every weekend and many nights a week.

[Eagle92]

A few thoughts on flaps.

 

1) it could also mean that they are serving in a position that doesn't allow unit leaders to be nominated, ie CS leaders and venturing Leaders.

 

2) They could be uniform prohibitions against wearing OA flaps, i.e. Sea Scouts

 

3)Flaps could be restricted, i.e. one per lifetime, one for every 7 hours of service, etc, and they just on't have one onthe uniform

 

4) Could be a leader that beleives in the minimals.

 

Just b/c a person is wearing a flap, doesn't mean they are "involved" in scouting. I know plenty of "flap wearers," both youth and adult, who just do the minimum. And I've seen folks who bust their tails, going above and beyond, who are not in the OA. Best example I can give is a camp caretaker, who could never join before b/c of her involvement in CS, and now health prevents her from going in.

[shortridge]

Membership in the OA represents something different for adults who join as adults versus adults who joined as youth, though neither should be interpreted to mean that a Scouter is "not involved" sufficiently in Scouting.

 

Prospective adult members of the Order are selected - you note correctly that they can't just "join" - based on their potential for service in the future, not as recognition for past deeds.

 

There are plenty of darn good reasons why an active, involved, dedicated Scouter would not be a member of the Order. I'm sorry if you've experienced anything to make you feel like the OA has an "elitist" attitude. That shouldn't be the case - such a viewpoint goes against the very principles that we work towards.

[jhankins]

I don't think the flap represents a level of involvement, but represents the privilege of being a member.

 

I'd much rather judge the involvement of an Arrowman by the dirt under his fingernails.

[Eagle92]

Short,

Couldn't have said it better

 

J,

Just remember, "a clean Arrowman is a lazy Arrowman."

[VigilEagle04]

Eagle,

 

Unless it's an LEC meeting or some sort of formal function. We clean up fairly well sometimes, lol!

[prairie]

Keep in mind they may be an Arrowman and just don't have a flap on that uniform, I was a youth member and until I had a chance to rejoin as an adult I wore the arrow on a ribbon pocket device, my Webelo leader shirt is still set this way, I have plenty of flaps it's just a choice I made.

 

BTW I have seen a SeaScout with a lodge flap, not surprising as he is heavily involved in OA.

[jhankins]

Ya, I tried to keep my sash white... that lasted about a week.

 

I only have a flap on one uniform, but I guess I could sew one on each shirt. But it doesn't matter to me. I know I survived the Ordeal and heard agreed with the Admonition, and that's good enough for me.

 

The only reason I have a flap on right now is my son kidnapped my shirt and put it there! He's pretty darn proud of his mom.

[Eagle92]

Yeah I know we can clean up pretty well, I had to look good for ceremonies and dancing Actually Sea Scouts are not suppose to wear OA insignia. Does it happen, sure do, especially when your lodge is CO for the ship and every registered member of the ship is a Vigil Honor member to boot. Only way to keep a sash clean is to have a second one and using it only at ceremonies.

[VigilEagle04]

I actually have three sashes at this point, though one doesn't get much use anymore since I am no longer a youth. One for ceremonies, one for meetings/formal, and one for my usual activities. My ceremonies one has a certain "illegal" patch on it. Never used it to remind myself, just thought it was a nice touch, and I never wear it outside of the ceremonies ring.

[Eagle92]

My problem is that I keep giving away my clean sashes whenever I need to attend ceremonies.

 

I admit I used the "reminder" when I did a certain part one time. Only did that 1 time and that was enough for me.

[gsdad]

I have/had three sashes, one for work weekends and Elongmat duty, one for ceremonies and "clean" events, and one for socials.

 

I have found Scouters who were inducted as a youth tend to be wear the flap more than those who were inducted as an adult. I don't know if it means more to them or they are just used to the flap being part of their uniform.

[Gary_Miller]

It also could be that they are members but have not kept their dues up-to date and are following the guidelines.