Venturing Eligibility for OA - An Idea...

[BDPT00]

It's true that some people feel that way. I don't happen to be one of them. Change takes time, and it often takes activists to make it happen. That's fine. Make some noise. I'm suggesting that the noise needs to be directed to the right ears. I won't be standing in the way if/when it ever happens. I just think the arguments are weak and often self-centered. I use "self-centered" because it's akin to the "close-minded" comment I'm assuming I'll soon hear. It depends upon the point of view. I've heard people for years saying that certain people should be allowed to do certain things. When that certain person gets older, the issue dies.

Go ahead and make noise. Be aware that you'll hear objections. Don't let up, but I'd suggest that calling people names or trying to insult them isn't the way to make changes. Instead, it causes people to dig in their heals. With the current leadership of this argument, you'll never get my support. Try something else, and I'll listen.

BDPT00

[DeaconLance]

BadenP,

 

If my vote had mattered, I would not have voted for female Scoutmasters or allowed them in the OA, simply on the principle boys need male role models. Young Scouts also need older Scout role models, therefore I am against OA going CO-ED. But I am also a realist and I believe in and love Scouting even if management chooses a path different than I would like. Female Scoutmasters and Adult Arrowmen are here and I accept them and realize they are many excellent people among them.

[DeaconLance]

scoutdad_tx,

 

It is not apples and oranges. The OA is a service society as well, the Brotherhood of Cheerful Service. It exists to promote service to a Scout's unit and Council Camp. Which is perhaps another reason why Venturers should not be inducted. The Venturing outdoor program is high adventure oriented and does not usually involve Council Camps. The Corps of Discovery is based on Servant Leadership, the OA is as well and has used that motto since before Venturing was founded. The Corp may not intend itself to be an honor society, but ultimately as a recognition that is granted it takes on that characteristic.

[sherminator505]

Deacon Lance,

 

Do you believe that the presence of female leaders in Scouting and OA has impaired your ability to be an effective male role model for the Scouts, and if so, how?

[DeaconLance]

sherminator505,

 

No. However, in a unit with all female leadership (it is a possibilty) it will not exist.

[BDPT00]

Just for the fun of it...

Sherm (May I call you Sherm? Somehow, it just feels more friendly.),

Do you believe that the presence of female leaders in Scouting and OA has enhanced your ability to be an effective male role model for the Scouts, and if so, how?

[sherminator505]

BDPT00,

 

Just for the fun of it (and to show my willingness to actually answer questions), I am happy to say that the presence of female leaders in Scouting and OA hasn't affected my effectiveness as a male role model to the Scouts one way or t'other. They're just there.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[sherminator505]

Deacon Lance,

 

That sounds like a worst-case scenario. Have you ever actually seen that happen? What caused/would cause it?

[VigilEagle04]

I have to say first off, that I am for co-ed scouting all together anyway. Having done some things up north with Scouts Canada during their transitional period, I've seen how it can turn out. So my view may be a bit skewed.

 

As it currently stands, I see no reason why the rules could not be changed to allow Venturers in. As a person who was involved in both a Troop and a Crew, I have seen how it goes. All the male members of the Crew were OA members. All the adult leadership, male and female, were in the OA. The female members of the Crew were, understandably, a bit miffed about all this (mainly because everyone but them in the Crew was going on these extra outings, lol). Several of these young women had received the Ranger and/or the Silver award, could "out scout" (my term for knowing the fundamentals of scouting better) several of the young men, and in my opinion, better exemplified what the WWW is all about. Now, most of them are now members as adult leaders, but they missed out on the fun as a youth.

 

I think there should be a reevaluation of the policy regarding Venturing and the OA, just based on what I have seen

[Eagle_23]

Now i have a somewhat related question. what do we do about uniform recognition. ventures can sinply wear lodge flaps. but what about sea scouts with their dress uniforms. that cant wear lodge flaps or sashes with them. what would we do as uniform peices for them?

[DeaconLance]

sherminator505,

 

Yes, once. The female CC and Scoutmaster weren't fond of camping, ran it like a Webelos den, and the troop dwindled. Cause? Lack of interested males and the running off of male ASMs who didn't agree with the direction they were taking the troop.(This message has been edited by DeaconLance)

[DeaconLance]

Eagle_23,

 

Universal Arrow Ribbon? That is if Sea Scouting allows it and I am not sure that it does.

[Eagle92]

'23

The national, stress NATIONAL, sea scout uniforms do not allow OA insignia on them. And to be honest I can understand b/c there is no pocket flaps on the SS crackerjacks. No flaps, no button holes for temp insignia (hence temp insignia is verboten on the SS uniform)etc. When I get my new shirt, it will follow the new national policies to the letter.

 

However I have seen OA insignia on local ship's uniforms. Heck I got one on my old ship's uniform and that is because the OA lodge founded the HA sea base the ship was affiliated with, (it is also the only unit I ever knew of with every member and leader being a Vigil Honor member of the OA). The ship's number was the lodge's number, and everyone wore their Vigil flap on their uniform. I also have seen OA sashes at OA events, just as I have heard about WB beads being worn by WB staffers in Sea Scout uniforms, despite also being verboten.

 

The closest thing to OA recognition that Sea Scouts have is a local recognition in SR7, the Order of the Golden Dragons. CArdinal Wardroom has more info on it.

[sherminator505]

When we speak of Sea Scouts and how they might wear OA recognition, it brings a question to mind - what percentage of Sea Scouts would meet the camping requirement?

[sherminator505]

DeaconLance,

 

I'm sorry you had that experience, although to be fair I have seen male leaders do exactly the same thing, with similar results.