Venturing Eligibility for OA - An Idea...

[Eagle92]

Hadn't thought about it. But I think the camping requirement would make them ineligible. Besides they already have the CS Outdoor award to wear on their pocket flap.

[BDPT00]

Let's give Venturers an Outdoor Award, too. Problem solved.

Eagle92 quoted: "* Recognize those who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives and through that recognition cause others to conduct themselves in a way that warrants similar recognition."

At what point do Venturers promise to live by the Scout Oath and Law?

BDPT00

[sherminator505]

"I hate to say it, but there are a lot of Female venturers who do just the above."

 

Why do you hate to say that?

 

For those of you who seem to be against the Order of the Arrow being "Scouting's National Honor Society," how would you feel about membership in the Order being by election only (i.e. NO adult nominations), applied retroactively to 1915?

[Gary_Miller]

Eagle92, "Also the OA is now considered "Scoutings National Honor Society," and Venturing is part of Scouting."

 

Venturing, while a program of the BSA, is not a part of the Scouting program.

 

[sherminator505]

"At what point do Venturers promise to live by the Scout Oath and Law?

BDPT00"

 

At last, a legitimate argument! Really hadn't thought about that, although I've often wondered why Venturing needed a different oath in the first place...

 

"Venturing, while a program of the BSA, is not a part of the Scouting program."

 

Why then, do we not find information on Venturing on venturing.org, or information on Cub Scouts on cubscouting.org? Actually, the second address actually works, but where does it lead, hmm...(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[emb021]

"Venturing, while a program of the BSA, is not a part of the Scouting program."

 

Oh? Then why is Venturing billed as "Scouting's Next Step" if its not part of Scouting???

 

[John-in-KC]

sherminator...

 

Since I was elected as a youth member...

 

OK, let's crosswalk the Venturing Oath and Code to the Boy Scout Oath and Law:

 

 

 

As a Venturer,

I promise to do my duty to God

and help strengthen America,

to help others, and

to seek truth, fairness,

and adventure

in our world.

 

Venturing Code

 

As a Venturer, I believe that America's strength lies in our trust in God and in the courage, strength, and traditions of our people. I will, therefore, be faithful in my religious duties and will maintain a personal sense of honor in my own life. I will treasure my American heritage and will do all I can to preserve and enrich it. I will recognize the dignity and worth of all humanity and will use fair play and goodwill in my daily life.; I will acquire the Venturing attitude that seeks truth in all things and adventure on the frontiers of our changing world.

 

http://www.usscouts.org/advance/venturing/oathcode.asp

 

I promise to do my duty to God and help strengthen America,

One my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country

 

Yep, they match

 

to help others, and to seek truth, fairness,

to obey the Scout Law, to help other people at all times,

 

Truth and fairness: That's a pretty good distillation of trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, and clean (reverent was tagged above)...

 

and adventure in our world.

and to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight

 

Gee, those are covered in truth and fairness as well

 

and as for physically strong, I think that's covered in Adventure.

Adventure: Something not in the Scout Law ... a sense of willing discovery!

 

BTW, those who continue to object need to go back and read the 1965 edition of the OA Handbook. On pages 16 and 17 the OAHB discusses the policies for Boy Scout Troops and Explorer Posts.

 

So, imnsho, the argument about the Oath and Law is a red herring. We have more years of having elections in the older youth division of Scouting than we do not having them!

 

Again, this can be solved quickly: Lodges need to step up to the plate, and recruit to fill all camp staff positions with Arrowmen. Then, there is not need for Venturing women to serve our Councils as seasonal staff. When the boys are pulling the full load, and young ladies are not doing cheerful service greater than what 10 unit only Scouts are doing, the argument is moot.

[Gary_Miller]

duplicate posting

 

 

(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

[Gary_Miller]

sherminator505, "Why then, do we not find information on Venturing on venturing.org, or information on Cub Scouts on cubscouting.org? Actually, the second address actually works, but where does it lead, hmm..."

 

Could it be it was an available domain that made since in which to link all the programs together.

 

 

emb021, "Oh? Then why is Venturing billed as "Scouting's Next Step" if its not part of Scouting???"

 

It is? Please lead me to the official document that does this.

 

I have yet to hear Venturing billed as anything except another option for youth interested in high adventure.

 

 

 

 

[Gary_Miller]

John-in-KC, "Again, this can be solved quickly: Lodges need to step up to the plate, and recruit to fill all camp staff positions with Arrowmen. Then, there is not need for Venturing women to serve our Councils as seasonal staff. When the boys are pulling the full load, and young ladies are not doing cheerful service greater than what 10 unit only Scouts are doing, the argument is moot."

 

The lodge has nothing to do with the recruitment of camp staff. Staff are employees of the council they are interviewed and hired by the camp director based on the needs of the camp. Who they hire is non of the lodges buisness.

 

The only reason you see young ladies in Venturing uniforms is because young ladies can only register in the Venturing program, and the tan Boy Scout uniform is not an approved uniform for Venturing Crews. Therefore, young ladies can only wear a Venturing uniform, and staff have to be in uniform.

 

You have to be a registered in a BSA program to work at camp. I know at our camp the staff form a Venturing Crew in which all staff members are registered. Without this crew young ladies would not be able to be on camp staff.(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

[emb021]

"emb021, "Oh? Then why is Venturing billed as "Scouting's Next Step" if its not part of Scouting???"

 

"It is? Please lead me to the official document that does this."

 

"I have yet to hear Venturing billed as anything except another option for youth interested in high adventure. "

 

 

Well, I assume you're not involved in Venturing, and don't know much about it.

 

"Venturing: Scoutings Next Step" is a catch phrase from the early days, as its on one of the Venturing promotional items. I know I've heard it and kind of used it for many years. I wouldn't have done so if National themselves didn't use it on their materials.

 

 

"Let's give Venturers an Outdoor Award, too."

 

Already do. That's the Outdoor Bronze and the Ranger Award...

[sherminator505]

"Could it be it was an available domain that made since in which to link all the programs together."

 

And why in the world would they want to do that? They are separate programs, right? Wouldn't it serve the BSA better to spring for separate domains for the separate programs, if that's what we're all about?(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[John-in-KC]

Gary,

 

That's a crock of excrement, and you know it. We have women youth members of camp staffs because Councils cannot find enough young men. So, there's a Council-wide organization of young men in almost every one of our Councils. Why is it not doing some cheerful service and being the honor camping society it should be, and getting off its leaden fourth point of contact and helping the Camp Director find qualified and altruistic young men?

 

Oh, yeah, that's why: You say it's not a mission of the Order.

 

As a collateral to this debate, you'd best not hope that Boy Scouting becomes co-educational, either at the Council level (gender-specific Troops) or at the unit level, as we are discussing in a thread in Open Discussion, Program. If that day comes the first young woman who is denied an Ordeal will have a discrimination lawsuit against the National Committee of the Order of the Arrow. Her parents will be very rich, and the Order will be under Court supervision for years to come...

 

I've said my piece, and I shall no longer post in this thread. It's blatantly obvious there are Brothers who cannot or will not think outside the box.

[shortridge]

Venturing as Scouting's Next Step: Look at the second page.

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/25-200.pdf

 

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"Although its members have and continued to provide service and support to Cub Scouting, Exploring in the past, and now the new Venturing program, its roots have always been in the Boy Scout program."

 

National is trying to have its cake and eat it, too. If the Order only provides "service and support" to Cubs and Venturing, then neither adult Cub Scout leaders or district Cub-side Scouters should be allowed to be members. Ditto for former Boy Scouts-turned-Venturers.

 

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John has hit the nail squarely on the head with his point about camp staff. There *should* be enough active youth members in even a mediocre lodge to more than fill the staff ranks many, many times over. The fact that councils desperately search every year for qualified candidates is a clear sign that lodges aren't doing their job. So camp directors have to turn to "outsiders" - Venturers, college students, professional guides - to have camp ready for the BOY SCOUTS they serve.

 

If the OA - allegedly part of the BOY SCOUT program, as some here have reminded us - can't do that, then it's clearly time to open it up and give some of the talented, skilled youth female Venturers a shot.

[BadenP]

I have to agree with John Gary, you are just playing a semantics game here to justify your argument, and it doesn't hold up. Any program that is part of the BSA is considered scouting no matter how you slice it. As a former camp director at my council for two years I can tell you it is hard to motivate enough OA members to serve on camp staff, the reasons are many. I will say this however the lodges I have been affiliated with members who are really active and living up to the service requirement of membership are not in the majority by any means, and that is a sad truth of the OA today. So IMHO going to Venturing crews to recruit staff who really want to be there is an excellent resource.