Adults - Are you doing the talking?

[ntrog8r]

We all know OA is 100% youth-run and youth-led - right?

 

Recently, we went to the Chapter meeting (we just moved here) to introduce ourselves and get involved. On the way in we're greeted by the (Eagle Scout) Chapter Chief. Seems to a pretty impressive young man from the quick conversation.

 

The meeting begins (quick, informal ceremony led by the Chapter ADVISER) and the Chapter Chief says, "This meeting is now in order, now we'll move to the Welcome by (insert Chapter ADVISER's name here)." The ADVISER spoke for the remainder of the (1hr) meeting. Seriously, the Chapter Chief says MAYBE five sentences during the rest of the night. We move a lot, so we see a lot of organizations in different states and I have to say - this is not an exception to the rule in our experiences.

 

If the adults are only "advisers" why are we always talking? Why are the pictures of us adults? Why are the only stories shared about how great the Order is and the Fellowship from adults? Can we not sit down, shut up, and stay out of the way? Is it any wonder that OA membership is low and and plagued with sash-n-dash syndrome? At least that's been the case for what we've encountered.

 

OK, soapbox moment done and apologies for the rant, but... A challenge for us adults that get tag-along in the SCOUT-led OA: Never speak in public. Like the Admonition is whispered, be a quiet guiding voice to the youth when they need it. Inspire the leaders and let them inspire the (youth) Arrowmen. Having possibly offended some, what are your thoughts?

 

[scoutldr]

Totally agree. As a former "associate chapter adviser", I once had to recommend that all the "adult" arrowmen move to a different room. All they wanted to do is sit in the back with coffee cups and run their mouths to each other and occasionally speak up to "add something" or "correct something". IMHO, the only reason adults (who are not youth advisors) should be attending OA meetings is to provide transportation. If they want to go to another room or stay in the parking lot to socialize, great! UNfortunately, we frequently have more adults than youth in attendance. Guess us old geezers just need another excuse to get out of the house!

[ntrog8r]

Scoutldr,

 

When we were in AZ, the adults (except the Advisers), went to a different room after the opening. But my son and the other Arrowmen from the Troop never wanted to go - it was booorring. As it happens, the Advisers were running the meeting and telling them what would be on their calendar and when!

 

This is what kills interest in Scouting for young men after Cubs, they don't WANT us running things, but we can't seem to help it.

[Eagle92]

Mea Culpa!

 

Yes I've added a few things to the chief's comments. And yes I've been advised to sit back and relax. hard to do for me but i'm glad i got freinds looking out for me.

 

Good news is that I'm no longer CA, so I only speak when told to . Last meeting, with the chief's permission, I talked about some upcoming activities that will be occuring to celebrate teh 100th anniversary. Again it was with the cheif's permission, and the info wasn't available yet elsewhere.

 

but yes the scouts want ot run it, we just need to give GUIDENCE PRIOR TO the meetings, and let the youth run with it.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

Thankfully all chapters are not like that!! Like most chapters, we often have more adults than youth at our chapter meetings ............. but the Chapter Adviser gets a minute at the end of the meeting, other than that, the officers are running their meeting. Note - their meeting, not ours!

 

I enjoyed attending chapter meetings particularly while I was District Chairman. I was sure that I wouldn't be asked to say anything, unlike any other meeting that I attended during that time.

 

If you are a member of a chapter like the one described by ntrog8r, please invite the offending adults out for that proverbial cup of coffee and ask them to "please back off, chill out, and let the youth do their thing!"

[Twocubdad]

I've just started going to OA chapter meetings with our troop OA Rep and we seem to have the exact opposite problem. After a 2.5 hour meeting it was decided that at the Fall Fellowship we would wear bandanas not hats and recycle an old gateway from an earlier fellowship that was in storage. Those were the only two decisions left standing. Numerous other ideas were floated, discussed then abandoned. Even with the meeting running an hour late on a school night, the adults all sat like bumps on logs.

 

Shouldn't the ADVISORS occasionally offer advice? Like, "if I understand you correctly we have three proposals on the table. Which one should we focus on?" Or, "We have several more agenda items to cover, so let's move on." Or, "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Good night!"

 

 

[ntrog8r]

For the meetings with no obvious plan or direction I wonder where the Advisers were BEFORE the meeting. "What is your focus this time?", "What decisions have to be made/communicated at the meeting?", "What's coming up on the calendar?", etc.

 

Just like the meeting plan happens before the meeting so should most advice, I think.

 

If something is derailed, certainly the Adviser should step in, gently asTwocubdad suggests, to get things rolling again. Those guiding questions are great tools.

 

I spoke to the Chapter Adviser after the meeting, trying to use guiding questions, and then heard about how the Chapter Chief - an Eagle Scout - wasn't really able to run a meeting since he didn't know where the Chapter was heading. HUH?!? Phrases like, We're getting there, They need time, We're rebuilding, You don't know where we're at because you just showed up, This used to be a great Chapter, etc were used heavily.

 

I really think there should be an assigned adult "Adviser" whose job is to attend the meetings and tell the Advisers to sit down and let the Arrowmen run their meeting.

 

Eagle 92, I find hard to believe you were a s guilty as what I'm talking about. The "Let me just add something..." can be dangerous but at least the Arrowmen are talking. you could see the Chiefs boredom as he stood in front of evryone while the Adviser regaled us.

 

Maybe the Chief of th efire shuld make occaisional rounds to the meetings or have position to follow-up with active and inactive YOUTH Arrowmen to find out what they think about the activities and health of their Lodge/Chapter.

 

I hate to complain and would rather get results. What say you out there, how do we impact the Order to get us old guys out of the spotlight and into the shadows. Those that are successful, is there a key that keeps adults from over-involvement or is it just good Adviser selection?

[shortridge]

A slightly different perspective...

 

As a former chapter chief and lodge vice-chief, I can say that I would have smacked some adults over their heads if they just sat quietly and never said anything. I knew that they had more experience than I did in almost every area of lodge operations, and I wanted to learn from them. I asked for their ideas and advice, especially when we were getting close to reinventing-the-wheel territory. But I knew that the decisions were ultimately mine, from the micro to the macro, and I occasionally made choices that were at odds with what they advised.

 

Adult association is no less a method of Scouting in the Order just because it's a youth-run organization. I valued the relationships with adults in my chapter and lodge perhaps even more than in my troop context because we were equals - all brothers and sisters under the sash. I listened to them, and they listened to me, and we all respected each other.

 

However, it irritated me when certain advisers would take over the floor from the youth officers they advised and dominate the discussions or decisions. That indicated a poor officer-adviser relationship - not a symptom of huge problems within the Order, but just something that needed to be corrected on a case-by-case basis. IMHO, it really does come down to good adviser selections and training - not just taking the first warm body that pops up.

[ntrog8r]

You're right about adviser selection, shortridge. The OA pedigree does not always mean the person will be a good YOUTH adviser. Although they'd probably make a good trainer or adult adviser, at least.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Nitro,

When I first took over and was rebuilding the chapter, yes I was bad. We didn't have any youth leaders at first, so I did way too much. Once We got some youth leaders running it, I only interjected when needed, which wasn't much. Then my leaders decided to do something crazy and go to school out of state, and I started all over again. Luckily it didn't take long.

 

But the Aug OA meeting was when I was bad. The CC was at Philomnt and the 1sat VC wasn't prepared. adn I admit I interjected too much. The guy who is replacing me as AA (the CA was in a nite class that nite) told em to relax and let them sink or swim. Told me I got to into CS leader mode too fast and I need to get back into OA Mode

 

 

[eaglescout1996]

Unfortunately, for the short term, I believe I'll end up being a "vocal" adviser. I recently moved to a different Council/Lodge, and along with my duties as a UC, I've been asked to be an Associate Chapter Adviser. Last week I went to my first Chapter meeting....it was me and the Chapter Adviser. He even holds it a the same time and place as the roundtable meeting, so that SM's can bring younger Arrowmen.

 

So I took it upon myself to write up an agenda for an ad hoc Chapter meeting at next weekend's District Camporee. The CA is very appreciative that I've taken the reigns, but I'm a little puzzled at the lack of interest from the younger Arrowmen. Lodge Elections were last week at the Fall Fellowship and apparently Chapter Elections are usually next month, so maybe we'll get some enthusiastic young men in positions.

 

The sad thing is that the CA told me that at our ad hoc cracker barrel Saturday night, we might get 3-4 Arrowmen to come. I've never experienced this before, but I see it as an opportunity to get some young men involved and rebuild the Chapter. What really got me...there was another younger UC at the roundtable last week (eagle scout, about 21 years old), I started up a conversation to introduce myself as there are only about 5 UC in the District. I mentioned the OA and becoming involved in my new Chapter, and he said that it was a waste of time. OA doesn't do anything worthwhile, it's a waste of time, and besides, he gets to wear the flap and sash without participating. I was dumbfounded, to say the least.

[Eagle92]

ES'96

It may be a variety of reason. 1 may be that the chapter hasn't been operating at a prime level. Another may be that the youth are burned out, with too much going on. A third may be that they have unit responsibilities at the same time.

 

In these threads somewhere is that I did to reinvigorate my chapter when I took over. It took about 3 months, but I was fortunate in that my CC was a go getter. You need go getters who are highly motivated, fun activities, and soemthing you can hang your hat on OAish. My chapter is known for singing prior to and after the ceremonies.

[eaglescout1996]

Thanks Eagle, I'll take a look at the older posts and take a read.

 

One thing the CA mentioned to me was that about 1/3 to 1/2 the Troops in our District don't camp enough for Scouts to qualify for the OA. Our district is very diverse and Troops are spread between urban, suburban, and rural....and I'm hoping if we get some good Arrowmen involved, they can really start to promote a camping program in those units who really don't due it.

 

I was away from Scouting for quite a few years after a turned 18 (college, military, work) and I came back as a UC...my involvement in the OA for the last few years was mainly Lodge and Chapter events. I wasn't too involved in the operations or adviser portions too much, so I have been really surprised at the all the changes that have taken place since I left. I've just kept wondering if the changes and the lax election rules have changed Scouts outlook on the Order.