Ordeal to Brotherhood Problem

[ASM915]

Does anyone out there in WWW land have a fail-safe way to make sure that Ordeal members seeking Brotherhood are truly eligible, and don't slip through the crackes? Granted, the VC of Membership and the Brotherhood person should be able to prevent this from happening, but when it does, then what?

 

How would you handle the situation where an Ordeal managed to seal their membership with Brotherhood before the allotted 10 months?

[John-in-KC]

1) ScoutNet. Ordeal is a tracked date, IIRC.

 

2) LodgeNet. Ordeal is a tracked date.

 

The youth members working registration for the weekend should be able to manage this. It's not rocket science.

 

Sounds to me like the Lodge Adviser needs to have some log stump mentoring with the Chief and the VC for membership.

 

Then, the Chief should have a log stump mentoring with the short-time Brother. Ask him about what we say at the ceremony (a synonym for integrity comes to mind).

[scoutldr]

Was this a youth or an adult?

[Twocubdad]

Are you looking at this from the lodge point of view or the troop? For the lodge I would think it would be a very basic record keeping function to see who had gone throught the ordeal last year.

 

For the troop it's OPP (other peoples' problems).

 

Around here opportunities for Ordeal and Brotherhood are fairly tight. If a Scout's is enthusiastic about being in the Order and his best opportunity to complete Brotherhood shaves a few weeks off the 10 months I wouldn't sweat it.

[prof]

Twocub wrote:

Around here opportunities for Ordeal and Brotherhood are fairly tight. If a Scout's is enthusiastic about being in the Order and his best opportunity to complete Brotherhood shaves a few weeks off the 10 months I wouldn't sweat it.

 

I would tend to agree with him for exactly the same reasons!

When I was a scout, we had a fall ordeal and a spring ordeal. If a scout went through in the fall, they might be a few weeks short for Brotherhood the next Spring. If they have been active, I wouldn't sweat a few weeks.

 

ASM915: Is that the case? Are we talking weeks or months? How active is th Arrowman?

 

Prof.

[ASM915]

Scoutldr,

A youth.

 

2cub,

As a CA.

 

John,

Yep, it should have worked. But the Vice Chief is also on staff as waterfront director. He's usually good at multi-tasking. The Brotherhood Chairman is probably the one that missed it.

 

A few weeks from Brotherhood is one thing. But this one just went through Ordeal this spring. Plu we run Brotherhood every week at summer camp.

 

I thought something didn't sit right when I heard the name, but coulcn't put my finger on it. When I arrived back at the house last night, I pulled my copies if the Spring Ordeal candidates and there he was.

 

Does antone have Brotherhood candidates check in with Chapter officers or the CA before going ahead?

[scoutldr]

Since it was a youth, and recent, I would ask the SM to have an SM conference about the meaning of "Trustworthy" and ask the scout what should be done to "fix the error". Ideally, scout should contact the lodge chief and ask that the "administrative error" be corrected as he turns in his Brotherhood sash. As appropriate "fix"? Restart the clock and wait 10 more months, then reapply for Brotherhood Honor. Have to give the benefit of the doubt, since there were errors on all sides.

[fleetfootedfox]

I could easily see a Scout not being clear on the requirements and just making a mistake. Don't blow it out of proportion.

[John-in-KC]

It's indeed not worth blowing out of proportion, but it's also an integrity issue. Those here who are of the Brotherhood know the part of our Oath I speak of.

 

Lodge Chief needs to have a Conference with this Scout and his SM. Doesn't have to be confrontational, but does need to lay some groundwork.

 

Then, this little Charlie Fox needs to be reported, sans names, in the Lodge newsletter.

[BadenP]

Too many here are ready to cast blame and pass judgement without knowing all the facts.

This could have been a simple misunderstanding instead of being "untrustworthy" or "a lack of integrity". This should be properly handled by the lodge's chief or vice chief, have the boy turn in the sash and wait until he is qualified to go through the ceremony.

 

John, setting back the clock is improperly adding to the requirements, and publishing his name not only is going over the top it is counterproductive to the meaning and purpose of the OA. The lodge youth leaders are there for a purpose not just in name only so let them do their jobs, if they need help they have the lodge advisor. I have witnessed adults blowing things way out of line almost permanently destroy two lodges, in one case it took over 3 years to rebuild it from the ground up. There was a reason Baden Powell wanted to keep adult control in the Boy Scouts to a minimum, this is a typical example.

[shortridge]

BadenP,

 

John suggested writing up the incident, sans - without - a name.

[John-in-KC]

Way back in Gunnery at Fort Sill, there was a reminder whenever we took tests.

 

RTFQ-RTFAs

 

Shortridge, thank you for reading my answer

[BadenP]

While thats true shortridge it still doesn't affect my comments, even with no names the lodge members will still know or find out quickly who it was, and don't think they won't, and that kid will pay the price.

 

John, Boy Scouts and the OA are not the Army but you constantly compare the two and prove the point that ex military do not always make the best scout leaders because they can't switch off all those years of drills, blood and sweat but instead carry them over to the boy scout troop.

[shortridge]

BadenP,

 

If the Scout is told to turn in his sash and wait until the next ceremony, as you advise, then word will get around as well - perhaps even more quickly, as rumors spread faster than most lodge newsletters I've read. :-)

 

I think the youth leadership is perfectly capable of handling such a situation, if they deem it necessary to be "handled" at all. Frankly, the only "Brotherhood problem" my lodge ever faced was the opposite of what ASM915 described - in increasing the number of brothers and sisters who sealed their membership.

 

I also think the acronym that John posted is universal in its application. It's good advice all around. No need to criticize, IMHO.

[BadenP]

shortridge, no criticism intended just an observation. Again you have to ask are we in this for our boys or ourselves, too many adults are in the latter category. Turning in his sash will be quite an embarrassment for the boy and other boys will find out anyhow. Again, we do not have the complete story here either, but you would have to agree that humiliating the boy even further would serve no purpose. If he is at fault he knows it and will be harder on himself than the lodge officers or adult leaders would be. But the question remains that you do not run a troop like a boot camp, this is not the army.