OA Elections in Large Troops

[fleetfootedfox]

Having the boys stand up and tell why they should be voted in sounds like campaigning to me, which is not permitted.

 

Checking off names isn't the same as listing names. The guide says the voter can list names. It also mentions listing eligible boys on a chalk board, flip chart, or poster.

 

Maybe there is a reason the guide does not say to have pre-printed ballots. Suppose somebody wanted to stuff the ballot box? If you saw names written out in the same handwriting twice, you might catch the problem. If it's check marks, you won't notice.

[Vicki]

Ballots are handed out, one per scout.

 

As for campaigning - I interpret that as an attempt over a period of time to influence voting, not 60 seconds in front of the troop describing your troop service.

 

To each his or her own.

 

Vicki

[fleetfootedfox]

It says in the GOA that the unit leader provides a list of names to the election team. It does not say anything about the unit leader doing anything with ballots. In fact, the GOA specifically says that the ballots are distributed (p. 27) and counted (p. 22) by the election team.

 

As you know, one of the biggest problems we have as adults is backing off and letting the boys run things. Especially in the OA, adults are just supposed to be advisers, and that should start with the election process. Let the election teams do their job and trust the process.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

I agree with Scouter760, right up to the point (that we see in another thread) where a SM decides to play fast and loose with the rules, and runs roughshod over the E-team.

 

If the youth are allowed to fail, a bad election happened. The adult accompanying the E-team needs to know when to step in with the SM and keep the election from being bogus.

 

As I've said elsewhere, I've seen SMs run roughshod over the Chapter Chief at RT, and it takes the Chapter Adviser being the "hammer of God."

[Vicki]

The OA team runs it - in fact, I'm the OA troop advisor and I work with the Chapter advisor who accompanies the election team. If he/she has to run herd on the SM, I'm there to help. The SM isn't even involved except to hand the ballots to the team. Either the SM or I talks to the Chapter Advisor and mentions that we'd like each candidate to speak prior to the election. I've never heard of him/her objecting.

 

I have heard horror stories at Lodge meetings about ugly adults, usually non-OA Scouters.

 

Vicki

 

 

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Vicki, that's a good point: Most of the time, everything runs like clockwork. It's when a Scouter loses the bubble that this is about the kids growth and development that things go goofy... whether it's ego, lack of /obsolete training, or whatever.

 

Because boards like these are resources for "what right should look like", we see more problems than 98% of units ever will.

[shortridge]

With regard to preprinted ballots, there is a line of thinking that argues those candidates whose names are listed first have a greater chance of success than those down-ballot, because voters are essentially lazy and just go down the list. That's why some election jurisdictions randomize names on the ballot, go alphabetically or mix up the parties (so that the Libertarians might go first, and not the Democrats or Republicans).

 

Especially with a large group of candidates, the same problem might introduce itself into an OA election. I've never run an election for a troop that large, however, so I have no first-hand experience.

[regi]

This is to address parts of thread relating to adult involvement.

One of the reasons for having and adult adviser accompany election team is to insure that they are not bullied by adults.You want the youth to run the process but you are there to insure that the proper procedure is followed and that the team is not interfered with.

It's not fair to put youth in position where they have to argue with adult leaders.Some are strong enough to handle it but most can be intimidated.They become torn between their need to show respect for the adult leader and their position as the person in charge.

[regi]

 

Concerning ballots.I was part of 10 unit elections this year and have been involved with election teams for 12 years.

Some of the troops had as few as 1 eligible while others had 30 to 40.

Ballots ranged from scraps of paper that we supplied to nicely printed forms with names provided by troop.

I like to see the printed ballots with the large groups.This way the boys can see the names of who they have to consider.

The process is never going to be absolutely perfect.The important thing is that there is only 1 ballot per voter and that it is clear who they can consider as potential candidates.There are as many different variations as there are units to precisely how this is achieved.

Your team is there to insure that unit has clear instructions on the process and that election is fairly run.

 

Earlier in this thread,Scouter760,commented that it was implied in advisers guide that ballot should be blank piece of paper.I suggest that it's better not to imply a meaning that is not clearly stated.

The guide is just a guide be careful not to imply stiffer rules than you are actually tied to.This could make life way too complicated.

 

Your Lodge should have written bylaws that are very specific about rules and the process for writing these bylaws is very careful

to use very specific terminology.

 

[Vicki]

regi, I believe you're on the beam - especially the part about not reading too much into what may have been left intentionally vague and leaving adults to ride herd on adults. Youth are left in an untenable position when adults run amok and unfortunately, we adults sometimes let "politeness" take over when we should step up to the plate and do what's right.

 

Vicki

 

 

[fleetfootedfox]

I have often had people on these forums say that my lodge should change its bylaws because they conflict with things in the GOA. However, regi says it's "just a guide" and the lodge's bylaws are the final authority on how to do the elections.

 

Actually, the national unit election policy covers elections in pretty much detail.

http://www.oa-bsa.org/programs/ttr/unit_elections_policy.php

 

The lodge rules should not conflict with these national policy although in my lodge they do, for example by requiring elections at summer camp.

 

I will concede, however, that the GOA and the policy I just mentioned does not explicitly rule out pre-printed ballots.

 

Anyway, please keep in mind that if no scouts are elected, it is allowed to have a second vote. So, if you're going to have pre-printed ballots, you'd better have two for each boy in case they have to vote twice.

[regi]

It's rare that a group large enough to make a printed ballot valuable does not select at least one.Actually in 12 years of participating in these I've never encountered the need for second vote.If the rare situation arises then you just do what you can.More than 1/2 the units tend to not be prepared and we always bring paper that can be made into blank ballots.No matter what system you use there is always an opportunity for things to go wrong and you'll have to make adjustments to make it work.

I never implied that your bylaws should be changed.(I know nothing of your Lodge)I was only stating that laws and rules are written down clearly and the policy statement that you sited would fit that criteria.The guide tries to give you some ideas on how to perform your duties.

If there is a question of legality of procedure you can reference either Lodge bylaws or national policy statements.Your bylaws do not need to conform with suggested procedures in guide but they can not violate national policy.

[fleetfootedfox]

Just found this. From Unit Elections Team Checklist: "If your lodge uses preprinted ballots, send a sample ballot, in advance, to the unit leader so that the leader can enter the name of eligible Scouts and make a copy for each voter. "

[SR540Beaver]

scouter760,

 

In our troop, we have a PC and printer in the troop room and we print out own ballots for OA elections. If we had to do a second vote, we'd just print new ballots.

[fleetfootedfox]

Nice. Our troop doesn't own a computer, but anyway our lodge requires elections at summer camp if we're camping in-council. So, if we had a computer, probably wouldn't have it at camp.