eagle scouts: quality vs quantity

[dsteele]

The emphasis to get a Scout to achieve first class in his first year has been around since before I joined the BSA in 1973.

 

As far as I know, it's still 2% from go to Eagle, but I really haven't been paying attention to the statistic.

 

DS

[scoutldr]

OK, I've seen this percentage kicked around ... anywhere from 2-5%. For us science majors, what's the denominator? 2% of what?

 

As I tried to explain the $99 a month car payment ads to my boys...I can make the payment anything you want it to be if I fiddle with the other terms of the equation.

 

Just curious.

[Eagle74]

scoutldr: you're right on. I have tried for a few years to obtain definitive statistical data regarding the Eagle Scout percentages through the years. Maybe someone with BSA National connections could dig something up; # of Boy Scouts (this stat alone is elusive - Boy Scouts only, Scouts + Venture, Scouts + Explorers, etc), # of Eagles, by year since way back. The numbers below are the only thing I have been able to cull from various sources.

 

Year / Eagles / Boy Scouts / %

1991 / 28,016

1992 / 31,791

1993 / 32,534 / 979,192 / 3.3%

1994 / 37,512

1995 / 30,240

 

Annual Report Stats

1996 / 37,715

1997 / 40,296

1998 / 41,167 / 1,023,442 / 4.0%

1999 / ??,??? / 1,028,353

2000 / 40,029 / 1,003,691 / 4.0%

2001 / 43,665 / 1,005,592 / 4.3%

2002 /

[red feather]

Deep breath

 

Program and retention. These two go hand in hand,if you have a good, exciting program you will retain the scouts.

 

Pulled out an old scout roster recently and was stunned to realize that close to half of the boys had made Eagle. Did not realize that we had done something right.(?) We did not have a Eagle factory or even an emphasis on Eagle, just tried to make sure there was fun for the boys.

 

Lots of basic scouting, camping, cooking, orienteering, survival, basic stuff, the boys ate it up. Add in high adventure geared to the different age and skill levels and they stayed.

 

I know troops are boy led, but it is the adult leadership and example that points the direction. If the adults are excited and involved then the boys pick up on that and take that involvement to new heights.

 

We are not OA, but Mic-O-Say, and that may be part of our retention. Many scouts stay because they wish to advance in MOS. (history, tradition? My boys are third generation MOS,I and my boys are Runners, Dad and brothers are Tribal Coucnil) But we do keep them. Example, our local summer camp is Camp Geiger and to be on staff one must either be Eagle or so close it doesn't matter. Scouts who are Eagle are turned down because there are not enough openings.

 

Make it fun and have fun yourself and be supprised as to what will happen. Boys expect the outdoors and the skills associated with them, teach and lead them and they will perform.

 

Have a coffee cup from the 1980 that indicates that 4% will reach Eagle, but 62 others will take scouting skills and experiences into their lifes and use them. Not bad, not bad...

 

yis

[dsteele]

Scoutleader once sentenced me to a movie for working these boards on a vacation day. It was good advice and I took it by watching my DVD copy of Tin Cup -- one of my favorite movies.

 

He brings up an excellent point here -- 2% of what. The wording I have seen in relation to the 2% is "of every 100 boys who join Scouting, only 2% will receive the rank of Eagle."

 

Interesting wording. What does join Scouting mean? Does it mean only 2% of Boy Scouts achieve the rank of Eagle? I don't think so, but if you read it fast enough, many people will think so. If you read it slowly, it sounds like of every 100 kids who join Scouting (insert at any level) only 2 will reach the rank of Eagle.

 

Retention, as has been pointed out, is a key point. Advancement is one of the methods of Scouting, as is adult association, and several others. Fun is an important by-product. Actually, by-product is probably not the right wording. Fun is an important ingredient -- I think that's better.

 

I do think that analyzing only troop number of members vs. number of Eagles from the troop doesn't meet the intent of the statistic.

 

I can tell you two things:

 

1 -- there is a department at national (I don't know how large or small it is) that tracks all kinds of statistics from local data.

 

2 -- as one of my college professors used to say, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, darned lies, and statistics." He probably stole the quote from someone famous, but I don't know who.

 

More deep thoughts brought to you by DSteele.

 

DS

[Eagledad]

Good Morning All

 

I enjoyed your post Red Feather, thanks. I have a few friends in Mic-O-Say and I wish we had it here.

 

Like your Troop, Eagle was never a focus for us. We push a fun boy run program using the eight methods for leadership development. Lately we seem to around average ten eagles a year in a program where the adults do not set the goals for the boys. It's not easy to build a program like that, you have to have an attitude about you because there are so many adults who are Eagle focused.

 

When ever someone in our District talks about their troop with a goal to make every scout Eagle, I ask them; if given the opportunity to have one boy for one hour in your troop, what would you want him to leave with for the rest of his life? He doesn't have time to be an Eagle, so what then? If every boy who comes to your troop changes just a bit to be a better man for his family and community, then isn't that a better success. If a Troop with the goal to make every scout an Eagle misses one, then that program has failed. In a program where only 2% of Scouts make Eagle, isn't it better to focus on an outcome that has more favorable odds.

 

I once watched a commissioner tell tiger aged parents they had to join scouts so they could get the Eagle for getting into better colleges. I wondered then, what are we doing here? The Eagle hangs above Troops like a dark spring cloud ready to burst.

 

We adults control the program of how a boy can grow to be a man and work to be an Eagle. The best and most fun Troops in our Council seem to the ones who build a program around the other 98% of the scouts.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[EagleScout13]

Just because someone is young does not mean they cannot be a skilled leader. I achieved the rank of Eagle Scout when I was 13 in 2006 and my troop saw me as such a good leader that they made me a junior assistant scout master. I basically became an adviser to all the senior patrol leaders helping them learn how to lead until I was 18. My troop did not allow me to run for senior patrol leader so that other scouts could learn the skills I already had since I would have been elected every time I ran. So yes I do think it is possible that a 12 year old could have the leadership skills associated with Eagle Scouts.

[Tokala]

I'm not too concerned. More are earning and I do believe that the advancement necessary is not as strenuous as it was in the 70s and earlier. I see some Scouts that are what I would consider barely qualified for Eagle Scout and I see others that absolutely astonish you with their leadership and skills.

 

I remember when I became advancement chair for my troop. I'm a longtime Scouter locally. They rushed up and asked what I was going to do to help the 17yo Scouts in the Troop get their Eagle Scout. I calmy replied "Nothing. They know the advancement program and how to do it. My job is to get the new Scouts to First Class. Those are the important guys." Dead silence from the assembled parents.

[Eagledad]

Wow, did you guys see the age of this thread. I was looking at what I wrote and noticed how much less gray was in my hair. I sure looked thin.

 

Barry

[Beavah]

Yah, we seem to have had a rash of Zombie Threads risin' from the dead of late!

 

Welcome to da forums, EagleScout13! Thanks for chimin' in and bringin' this historical document back out of the closet. It's always fun to see 'em.

 

If yeh look at the top of pages you'll see a "Today's Active Topics" link, which will show yeh some of the current discussions if yeh want to jump in on those. But feel free to pull out old gems, too!

 

Glad yeh could join us.

 

Beavah

 

[Jeffrey H]

As scout in the 1970's in a small town, earning merit badges and advancing was a bigger challenge for us. We had a very active Troop program with lots of camping and honing our outdoor skills, but advancement was a much slower process for us. In our Troop, a scout who earned Eagle was truly special and admired because he took it upon himself to advance when the opportunities to find MB counselors were challenging. He earned it and it showed. "Merit Badge colleges" were unheard of and we never used Troop meetings for merit badges - never. The philosophy of our Troop was truly advancement at our own pace. By the time any of us achieved 1st Class, we had far better outdoor skills than many of the Star and Life scouts I see today. We were not tested once and then "checked off" on a requirement; we learned from repeated experiences.

 

The advancement culture is different today. "Get that Eagle or you will not be driving until you are 18" or something similar. I've heard that directly from the parents mouths more than I can count. I have deep trouble with that type of motivation to earn Eagle.

[Engineer61]

"The advancement culture is different today. "Get that Eagle or you will not be driving until you are 18" or something similar. I've heard that directly from the parents mouths more than I can count. I have deep trouble with that type of motivation to earn Eagle."

 

There's a bunch of those types of motivations out there.

 

"Help you get into college."

 

"Help you get a better job."

 

"Dad, Uncle, Grandpa was an Eagle/OA/SM/Grand Pu-ba."

 

My Scout is caught into all three of those...but that's not my fault.

 

[perdidochas]

Dsteele,

 

It was Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) who stated "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

 

 

[Cito]

This thread is so old that EagleScout13 was named Webelos10 when it started.