eagle scouts: quality vs quantity

[scottsuny]

When did it become so important to make every boy an eagle scout. It seems that we has a group are making boys eagles who really havnt earned it, they have all the stuff done in the book but to be an eagle is so much more. The other day i heard of a scout being the youngest eagle ever at the age of 12, now do you really think this child has the leadeship skills one would come to assume an eagle scouts to have.

[red feather]

Welcome to the campfire.

 

Not sure that as a group we are making BSA an Eagle factory. What we hear are the relative exceptions and odd stories that are out there. Seldom are mentioned the thousands of others that fit the 'expected' regimen and quietly go one to great things in their lives.

 

One thing to remember as a scout leader is that 'some Eagles soar, some flap'. All we an do is the best we can in any given situation and hope it is enough.

 

Scouting is an unique experience and many boys take things from scouting to the rest of their lives that they do not fully realize until years have passed. This includes the 'soarers and flappers'.

 

Welcome again.

yis

[Twocubdad]

Welcome, Scott. Sometimes this campfire puts out more smoke than heat or light, but we're glad to have you. Hope you brought you own chair.

 

Question for you: How do you judge the quality of an Eagle Scout? Are quantity and quality related?

[Eamonn]

Trying to answer the question posed by Twocubdad.

The requirements for Eagle are clear.

One would hope if the Adults are doing their part, following the requirements as laid down, there would be little or no question about the standard of anyone reaching the rank of Eagle Scout.

In the district that I serve we have:

A/ The Troops that have almost every boy, who stays the course, becoming an Eagle Scout.

B/ The Troops that due to such a poor program have hardly ever had a member reach the rank of Eagle.

C/ The Troops that have a program, where the boys are busy doing lots of "Stuff" and in the course of a year they might have one or two boys who, make it.

Walk into a meeting of Troop A. Yes the boys are busy working away on merit badges.

I had an "Old Timer" from such a troop tell me that he thought that he was losing his touch, the boys just weren't paying any attention to his merit badge class (He was covering one of the citizen merit badges) I asked how many of the boys had asked to "Do" the badge he said none, they had been informed that that was what they were doing over the next few meetings.

I explained that it was no longer "Their Merit Badge" They had not wanted to do it. It was forced upon them.

Ask the boys from Troop A, to show you any of the skills that they learned on the way to becoming First Class Scouts, and a good many can't do very much. It was something that was done to "Pass" that particular "Test" and never used again.

Needless to say the Patrol Method is unheard of, the adults are too busy herding boys into merit badge classes.

Troops in group B. Are just sad.

The boys in group C. Are having fun, the adults along with the PLC, have managed to come up with a balanced program.

While I think it is unfair to judge a Boy who has reached the rank of Eagle, because he has worked with the adult leadership that was available.

We might want to take a close look at some of the adults.

I keep hearing that the national average for boys reaching the rank of Eagle, is around 4%. I can't help thinking that "Something is rotten in Denmark." When I see Troops with 75% or more. It really irks me when I know for a fact that the program that they are calling Scouting, really is way of base and to make matters worse it Sucks.

Now that I have myself on my soap box, I think that a phone call to the District Commissioner, is in order. While I have little hope for Troops in group A. and think that Troops in group C. Are fine and dandy, we do have to work on group B.

[htc1992eaglescout47553]

first of all, I am new here.

 

Anyway, to let you of my opinion, It is my humble opinion that there are those who want to put too much focus on QuaNity than QuaLity. Nearly 50,000 Scouts made Eagle in 2002, but I just wonder if they are really worthy of that rank. I know I shouldn't judge these new Eagle Scouts, but if there is more emphasis of QuaNity, that would give those who earned Eagle YEARS ago the shaft. I just wonder if there is a "rubber stamp" idea here?

[evmori]

Does a 12 year old have the leadership skills to be an Eagle? Good question. I suppose it is possible but not the norm. Most 12 year olds are still playing kid games & losing their cups.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[scoutldr]

Following is a direct quote. Readers can form their own opinions. I found it interesting that they felt a need to defend their numbers. Perhaps someone in Irving reads our Forum???

 

From EAGLETTER, Spring 2003:

 

NOTES FROM NESA

 

"We did it! IN 2003, the Boy Scouts of America established a record Eagle Scout Class - 49,328 new Eagle Scouts. Are we excited about more young men earning Eagle Rank? Yes. Do we want to increase the number of Scouts who earn it? Not necessarily.

The Eagle Scout Rank is a standard by which a young man's accomplishments are measured. The award is significantly difficult to achieve, and we are not making it any easier to earn. We belive that the BSA's youth retention efforts are to thank for this surge in new Eagle Scouts. We are proud to process these new Eagles, and we recognize that the real pats on the back belong to parents, Troops, and motivated young men who work for this honor. Congratulations and thanks to all who helped a young man become an Eagle."

[OldGreyEagle]

Last I heard, about 5% of all scouts who join make Eagle. If I am wrong, doubtlessly I will be corrected. But how do we look at this, as a 5 percent success rate or a 95 percent failure rate? If the rate doubled to 10 percent, that would be a 90 percent failure rate.

 

Or do we look at the BSA program in total. Not with Eagle as the desired outcome, but as the desired outcome the idea so well articulated in the BSA Mission statement:

 

"The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

 

The Eagle Scout rank is what it is today because of the decades spent developing it as a quality accomplishment. But again, Eagle is not the long term goal of the BSA. For every non-Eagle former scout who has a cherished memory of summer camp, of a particular hike, of a merit badge that became a career, of an adult leader who made a difference in the scouts life, for all those who found a place in scouting, who loved it and did not become Eagle, I am not sure that was a failure of the program or the boy

[evmori]

Whatever the % is not important. What is important is there are Scouts who want to earn this high achievement and leaders who are willing to help them earn it.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[shemgren]

Ed, I agree! I serve as Eagle Project Advisor for my troop and any Scout who want to go forword with the Eagle process, I am willing to work with. Some have been more work than others, but that is the difference in boys.

 

The youngest I have seen is 13, but he was from another troop. The youngest in my troop was 15 1/2 when he started and almost 17 when he finished.

 

The stats are still on the low side and SHOULD BE or Eagle wouldn't mean what it does. My troop is 30 years old and we have had 11 Eagles in that time, the majority in the last five years with a good program running. Over the years, we had 100's of Scouts go through the troop and 11 Eagles is about the right percentage.

[scoutldr]

Sorry for the typo...should have been "In 2002"...

[Twocubdad]

Well said, Ed. Whether it's 1% or 100%, it's the journey not the destination.

[htc1992eaglescout47553]

Believe it or not, a fellow Eagle Scout and Scouter from my town and I talk about this every once in a while.

 

When I earned my Eagle, the stat was 2% of all Scouts. NOW, here in 2003, that was risen to 4%

 

I am sure that the QuaNity -vs- QuaLity issue is a controversial issue.(This message has been edited by htc1992eaglescout47553)

[yarrow]

Wow.........I had heard 2% on Eagles too.

 

I have 2 GSUSA troops, both my oldest daughters have finished their Gold Awards...

GSUSA has 1/2% go to Gold. The girls may not start Gold until they are about Juniors in High School so that accounts for a lot of the difference.

 

My boy 13 could probably pull off an Eagle though. Still he wouldn't look like one. I see these really little/young boys finishing up Eagle and wonder who it really belongs to..hmmmm

[Eagledad]

Hi all

 

Quality or Quantity is pretty much up to the unit leader. In most cases the adults control how the scout works toward Eagle. That is a given and it's been that way since the beginning of Boy Scouts. But what has changed is direction of National on our program. Until 20 or so years ago, scouting was about skills and leadership. Use to, scouts learned skills to be good leaders and those who wanted more (about 2% of the population) went on to get Eagle. I remember well when First Class rank was considered it's own honor because that was proof of maturity in the troop. Now it means the scout can join a regular patrol.

 

Look at the program now and you see encouragement by National to get the new scout to First Class in one year. While scouts still have to learn skills to get to rank, time is more important than expertise of individual skill. A scout controlling his own destiny is being taken out of the equation. Advancement is becoming more important than the skills required to get the ranks. Why the shift in First Class Scouts, because of numbers. The BSA says that scouts who get first class in one year are more likely to stay for several years. National says we have more Eagles because we retain more scouts. Maybe that's true, but let's hope that Eagle Scouts have the same respect in 20 years that they have now.

 

Barry