Council Ruins Order of the Arrow

[eaglescout07]

Wow its been a long time since I've been on here! Let me just blatantly say: my lodge has ruined Order of the Arrow in my council. They have taken an aspect of scouting, which I fell in love with, and changed it into something with little excitement/awe that it had a year ago. First our "higher ups" in the council shut down our NOAC acclaimed website for no reason (let me just mention that our youth lead society wasn't heard on any of this as well as our lodge advisers.) Then our quarterly publication gets dropped too...these things must be costing too much money??!?? On top of that our council changes our call-out/family night to a thursday and decides that the full ordeal will NOT be done at summer camp. After watering down our impressive call-out, candidates will just sleep on the trail and do the rest some other time...a work weekend in the next year. Now besides going against OA policy at the time(National changed the ruling for us) this change is horrible, and takes away from our Order of the Arrow honor society. Chapter ceremony teams are not needed anymore...a lodge team will do them all, people "stepped down" for fear of trying to go against the Council(why they have final say in the OA still confuses me). A council rep

came to me and wanted to know what I thought of the change, I simply stated my opinion(as above) and asked for the reasoning...he looked a little confused, but said something about membership being better(a complete lie, membership would be stronger if completed at camp....trying to get kids to come to a work weekend on a selected date will cut down on memb.) and how then everyone would be able to complete all the merit badges at camp.(which again is another dumb reason because the way our camp works is on thursday afternoon you finish your last too merit badges---thursday night is the callout, the ordeal could be completed the next day. As an eaglescout/brotherhood member of my lodge i'm am disgusted. Our lodge petition(with hundreds of names) was not even looked at. In a youth run society, our say sure didn't matter...hmmm...there is a flaw somewhere here. This was not the part scouting that i fell in love with. With a council exec. who has shut down other lodges in the US., i'm scared for the future of our lodge. These changes go with many that have been made on our camp, which I don't even want to get into(our camp is currently understaffed, cut back on programs and added cubscouts on our small acre camp during all weeks of the summer) so respond...let me know what you think...i speak my whole lodge's grief and frustration on this....Thanks

[shortridge]

I sympathize with your frustration. But as the Supreme Chief of the Fire, the Council Scout Executive does have final say in all OA lodge matters. Someone has to have the legal command authority, and that's the SE.

 

My old lodge did not do inductions at summer camp. There were three weekends scheduled throughout the year for that purpose, and candidates could choose which one to attend. It sounds like it'd be a pretty dramatic change for your lodge, ending what may be a long tradition, but it is possible to not do inductions at camp and still thrive.

 

Has the SE attended any lodge meetings to explain the changes? (Has he or she been invited to do so?) What does the lodge staff adviser say - the person who's supposed to represent the Supreme Chief of the Fire to the lodge?

 

As far as the newsletter, I can totally understand the argument for dropping the print edition in favor of an electronic one - e-mail, PDF, on a Web site, a blog, whatever. I'd wager 99 percent of youth members have access to the Internet. But since your Web site was also taken down, that kind of negates that argument. Sounds very confusing, and frustrating.

[Gonzo1]

I too feel your frustration. However, I can see some of their points. An impressive Tap Out ceremony is big. Yes, I said Tap Out, just don't break any collar bones, that's crazy. I also believe there's more to the ordeal than sleeping under the stars. So, a separate weekend is waaaaay better in my opinion than doing the ordeal at summer camp.

 

I also like chapter teams rather than lodge ones.

 

Good luck.

 

[ASM915]

Eaglescout07,

I can understand the frustration. Take shortridge's advice. Ask the Lodge advisor to ask the SE to an Exec. Meeting and have him inform the membership on the changes and why the changes. Yes, this probably should have been his first step toward change instead of the last step.

 

I understand your passion. I was a member of the ceremony team in my old Lodge back in the 70's. We held tapouts on Wednesday. Ordeal was held every weekend, starting on Friday night and ending on Saturday. They are still doing that.

 

Advantages:

1)Yes it gets more Scouts through as soon as they are tapped out.

2)Yes it may boost numbers, because they do Ordeal immediately.

3) Doing Ordeal on Friday allows other Scouts to see their fellow Scouts giving cheerful service.

 

Drawbacks:

1)Someone needs to pick up the Scout, or stay around to give him a ride home if Ordeal is done over Fri. and Sat.

2)Now a days, Councils want everyone out of camp from noon Saturday until noon Sunday, including staff. Darned insurance companies.

3)Running out of projects for the candidates to do. Yea, right!!

 

The Council and Lodge that I am now involved with still run an awesome tapout ceremony on Wednesday evening. Wednesday is OA day in camp. We have baseball games, OA vs staff, Brotherhood every Wednesday afternoon, ice cream socials. Ordeal is run twice a year, once in mid August and in late May or the first weekend of June.

 

Advantages:

1) Larger workforce for big projects, setting up or tearing down camp.

2) Larger number of candidates.

3) Only two Ordeal ceremonies a year. I liked 6-8 a year.

4) Less time commitment for the ceremonialist. Hey, you guys have a lot more on your plate now then we did 30 years ago.

 

 

Drawbacks:

1) Less involvement and excitement over the summer for new tapouts. Now they have to wait, and can't get involved as quickly.

2) The apathy sets in. "Do I really want to do this now".

3) Candidates can't get to the Ordeal because of sports obligations.

4) They forget about Spring Ordeal and then something else conflicts with the date. I have had three Scouts, one each over the last three years never make Ordeal because of sports, plays, etc.

 

Lodge ceremony teams vs Chapter teams: It sounds like someone wants to compete, and only wants a few people getting the parts down pat. our present Lodge has Chapter teams do tapouts at spring camporee. During summer-camp, it is a mix of people, whoever can get to camp. Our Council covers a very large geographical area of east central Ohio and the northen tip of W. Virginia. With gas prices the way they are, OA has been relying on OA camp staff members for Wed. nights. OA also does our Webelos Residence Camp Honors program every Tuesday and Friday evenings.

One reason our camp does not run Ordeal every weekend is that it would conflict with the Friday night Pipestone Camp Honors Program that is 83 years old, and draws Scouts from all over the US, Canada and Europe, a program that takes an additional 300 people other the staff every Friday to put on.

 

Both ways of running Ordeal have their advantages and disadvantages. I agree with you that it is probably better having one every weekend if the Lodge can handle it and not get burnt out, because you grab their attention fast and don't give it a chance to wane, get them involved in the Lodge faster and hold their interest, and get your Ordeal membership numbers up faster.

 

Good Luck

YIS

Eric P.

Bicentennial Eagle

Brotherhood '74

[emb021]

Some further comments on changing of how Ordeal are done.

 

When I joined the OA as a scout years ago, my lodge (and I think most lodges in my state) held Ordeal the weekend when summer camp was over.

 

Ordeal consisted of us going around and picking up cement blocks and tent platforms and putting them away, and picking up and storing our tents, poles, etc in the barn.

 

Hot work in Florida in (usually, mid-July).

 

About 5-10 years later, things changed. Not just in my lodge but most lodges.

 

First we changed ordeal to be the weekend when we setup camp, as there was more work in setting up then taking down. This meant that tapouts would happen during spring-time camporees, and not summer camp. We changed that end of summer camp ordeal into a lodge service day.

 

Separating elections from summer camp may also have been done because more and more of our troops were NOT coming to our council camp for summer camp. This is a trend that I see happening in many councils in my area.

 

Then it was decided that the Ordeal candidates were doing just scut work. Nothing meaningful. So first we changed it so the lodge members were setting up for summer camp, and the candidates were doing service projects around camp. Stuff they could come back to in following years and point to and say 'i did that'.

 

And then finally, it was decided that having ordeal in the summer (whether June or July) was just too hot, and it was moved into the Spring time. Again with the candidates doing meaningful service work instead of just scut work. The lodge would still have service weekends/day to setup and take down camp.

 

And so that's pretty much how it stands in most of the lodges in Florida, to my knowledge. But its something that been going on for a decade or two.

 

[croushorn]

Collective weekends for the lodge to have fall ordeal, spring ordeal, and fellowship here and there are better for bringing together the lodge as a whole. Weekly ordeals can spread that out too much. Limited ordeal weekends are more eventful and accomplished as a large group. We support the camp with set up and break down in addition to annual service projects. I cant imagine spreading it out so much, coverage would be a bear with little of the crucially important interaction and fellowship. Our Ordeal weekends are a big blast! Your situation is very complicated, am shocked to hear an Exec would consider shutting down the OA, in fact theres pressure on them to have their lodges to earn Quality Lodges status. Does sound like you all need to get the discussion going a little better and get out the rest of the story to your members.

Your section staff maybe able to assist if your Chief and advisors are having problems. Be careful not to get wrapped up in propagating rumors and contributing to the problems. Try and be part of the solution, your lodge needs you!

 

[John-in-KC]

This started while I was off on my Philmont Vacation

 

First, I see the emotion and the frustration in eaglescout2007. Change has happened, we're not sure why (him or us), and the result is frustration within the Lodge.

 

OK. There's some good advice here. I think it boils down to:

 

1) Executive committee of LEC (Lodge elected officers only) need to sit down with their Adviser. List out the issues they have 1 to N.

 

2) Do a preliminary cull: These are the issues we think we want to discuss with the SE.

 

3) Push out to the Chapter Chiefs. Give them the 1 to N list. See what they add, and how they rank order it.

 

4) Consider the Chapter Chief input. Finalize the cull list: These are the top 3 or five issues we want to discuss with the SE.

 

5) Do the homework. Know the budget and time impacts of each issue to be discussed.

 

6) Throught the Staff Adviser, invite the SE to a LEC Executive Committee business meeting, or, call on him for a business meeting during Council business hours. Easily, with maturity, raise the issues and ask for honest answers.

 

I hope your Lodge Adviser concurs with this kind of thoughtful, non-confrontational approach.