antique firearms and dance team

[kahits]

Our chapter has recently adopted a warrior society as a part of the tribe that identifies our OA chapter. Since historically the Dog soldier was a heavily armed lot, some of our dance team have chosen to carry hawks, sheathed knives, and a certain 1892 Winchester Leveraction, in 32 WCF caliber. Obviously, that caliber is long gone from regular, commercial production, but I have a question. Since our ceremony and dance teams have been at our AOL/Crossover and tapout ceremonies only, since they adopted to change the regalia, is there an official OA policy for firearms, that might come into play at the lodge level. Anyone familiar with this?

[Gold Winger]

Don't know about OA rules but someone gave you bad gouge about the ammo. The .32 WCF is also known as .32-20 and is a popular cartridge in cowboy shooting.

 

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrdetail.aspx?symbol=X32201&cart=MzItMjAgV2luY2hlc3Rlcg==

 

Of course if you have an original 1892, you'd probably want to think twice before firing it with modern ammo.

 

 

[Secret DE]

I would have a hard time with this. Especially because many crossovers in my district happen on school grounds. I am not sure the ceremonies team guidelines allow for a firearm, nor am I sure that carring a firearm, fake or otherwise, is a good idea for OA youth. Not because I am anti-gun, but rather because I worry that society is so ignorant that the situation will cause more trouble than it is worth. And think of all the nightmarish PR possibilities.

 

SDE

[scoutldr]

What about Venture crews who are re-enactors?

[kahits]

The only time it was carried was at Camporee, which was a rendezvous theme, and was located at a local gun club. It is not used for AOL/Crossovers, which are usually at a school, and is a different ceremony. I am asking about it being carried in the Grand entry at the lodge for Conclave this weekend. I agree that rifle and caliber is popular with the Cowboy shooters assoc., but as you suggested, would have to seriously think about firing modern ammo in a 116 year old rifle. He would only carry it to dance in the grand entry, after the Feast on Saturday, and would put it back in the scabbard. The other weapon is a 10 foot long buffalo lance, which would have other issues to try and dance with. I'll probably ask the lodge adviser, but thought I would see if any of you knew of a prohibition for using antique firearms in OA.

[Tokala]

I don't see it as a problem. As long as no one has access to any powder or ammunition, it's strictly a highly accurate historical prop. My lodge uses Seminole clothing for ceremonies and for many years Nutiket carried a 50 caliber musket. I've seen many dancers carrying weapons at pow wows, but I've seen so many I don't think I could separate the BSA ones from the real ones.

 

[kahits]

I know that veterans are the only ones who are allowed to carry firearms at powwows, and he would never do that. Since most of our lodge dance group (none of the chapters have a dance team) are just ceremony team members wearing their ceremony regalia, this is an opportunity to bring something that is tied to our chapter that is beyond ceremony team. He could always carry hand weapons as a back-up, but I would like to pursue this first. I'm tempted to go with the beg for forgiveness route at the lodge, since I know they are pretty terratorial about things, and there is nothing like this happening at the lodge. He's also wearing a calvary coat to go with the leggings and DS headdress.(This message has been edited by kahits)

[John-in-KC]

kahits,

 

If you propose to have the .32-20 weapon anyplaceexcept your Council Scout Reservation, I'd ask the facility Rangers or landowners in advance.

 

In my State, there is a difference between a true mock-up and a weapon. In certain State Parks, and in most County recreation areas, weapons other than those held by law enforcement are by statute/ordinance forbidden. You, your youth, and their families do not need the headaches of crossing the line.

 

In my mind, a true non-firing mock-up would be better for this use.

[BrotherhoodWWW]

From the Guide to Safe Scouting: "Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA or National Rifle Association firearms instructor."

 

I'm thinking that an OA Lodge function falls under the scope of an "other Scouting activity" and since the purpose of the rifles is not target shooting with a certified range officier present then the answer is leave firearms at home. Prior to doing otherwise it would be wise to seek the advice and consent of the Council Executive.

[kahits]

and if it has no firing pin, is it still considered a firearm? That was my fallback position, since the rifle will never be fired.

[Gold Winger]

A non-firing replica might be a good alternative. Schools might be problem unless you get permission from the administration because in the minds of many sheeple, toy guns = real guns.

 

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/Americana_and_Western_Rifle_Replicas.html

 

http://www.medievalcollectibles.com/denix-replica-rifles-winchester-rifle-1111.html

 

 

 

Another option would be to get an inexpensive .22 lever action and have a gunsmith deactivate it by plugging the barrel and drilling a hole in the receiver.

 

BTW, for most purposes "gun with firing pin = gun without firing pin," at least when dealing with ATF or the police.

 

(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[ManyIrons]

Just another datapoint and to piggyback on what BrotherhoodWWW said, the latest update to the OA Field Operations Guide says "The Boy Scouts of America policy regarding weapons will be followed." See http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/FOG-2008.pdf

 

Note: the cited quotation deals specifically with the various competitions at Conclave/NOAC, but the G2SS quote would apply everywhere.

 

That appears to cover the issue of firearms, the other item to address is the need for sheath knives.

 

[Gold Winger]

"That appears to cover the issue of firearms, the other item to address is the need for sheath knives."

 

There are no rules prohibiting sheath knives.

 

 

[kahits]

Oh, don't tell me he can't wear the beaded, sheath knife.

[Gold Winger]

I won't.

 

If you buy a replica 1892, I can offer suggestions on how to "age" it.