Tapout/Callout

[John-in-KC]

OK, all you folks are current chiefs and Advisers ...

 

Please cite the current rule which takes the tapout (THUMP, THUMPTHUMP!) and does the feather on the shoulder callout.

 

Have we gone beyond crazy on the "no-hazing" rule?

[willhi1979]

The National OA Policy for Call-outs is contained in the Guide to Inductions. Chapter 3 of this document discusses the Callout Ceremony and the Callout Guidelines. You can access the Guide at the link below, the password is the admonition.

 

http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/gti/Guide-to-Inductions1-6-and-Appendix.pdf

 

The guide doesn't address tapping directly, but it could be argued that the tapping is too rough and is hazing. You can find the words on that on the top of page 21 on the Guide linked above, the guide wouldn't let me copy the words out. The wording of the Policy leaves it somewhat open to interpretion. It could also be argued that the tapping violates Symbolic Progression since similar tapping is used in the Ordeal Ceremony.

[John-in-KC]

Well, since this year I celebrate the 31st anniversay of my no longer eligible to vote in the Order, all I can/will say is:

 

Aside from the symbolic progression issue (which can be overcome with a single tap)... some youth leaders along the way sure screwed that one up Nine Ways to Sunday. Politically correct or lawsuit averse wimps they were.

 

That's the one right an adult member who was a youth member, and who VOTED, has.

 

I'll ask my Reservation Ranger tomorrow, he was once Chief of our Lodge back in the day when ka-whumping was part of Candidacy...

 

ETA: All these years I've known the Admonition and a couple of symbols peculiar to the Brotherhood, but I never bothered to see the word in print, and my 1965 edition of the OA handbook didn't have it in print! (and my 14 year old phonetic spelling in my 38 year old OA handbook isn't the actual spelling! )(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[OldGreyEagle]

Way back when I was a youth, after Brownsea Island but before the red berets were retired, I was tapped out for the OA. A year later a scout who wrestled in high school was tapped out and was tapped so vigorously he sufferd a separated shoulder and could not wrestle in the District meet. Should that have been a reason to do away with the tap out, no it should not. Should the tapper been restrained from being the tapper for the future? Most likely but we have what we have.

 

Perhaps it's time to revive the tap out, with a firm tap monitored by the advisor, or better yet the ceremony team, the only adult given rule, anything untoward occurs the practice stops in that Chapter. Would that work?

[Mr. Boyce]

You know, at the scout level, this is a good opportunity to talk to the boys about hazing, why it's a bad thing.

 

I don't think the tap-outs we had in 1977 or 78 were hazing. At least the guys administering it just did it firmly, no intent to harm or demean, etc.

 

But for the ceremonies team, certainly it would let their advisor tell them what hazing is, and why it's a bad thing. An opportunity in life to do some teaching.

[Amangi Mizin]

Like I said in a previous string, my lodge continues to tap out however it is closely monitored. The youth have found a way to cup their hands to make it sound like the whacking I received when I was tapped out.

 

Id have to agree with Mr Boyce, it wasnt hazing when I was put in. As a mater of fact you only got a hammering tap if the chief liked you and thought you would make a great arrowmen which inspired a lot of youth.

 

[Tokala]

I still see both locally. "Call outs" seem to happen at the troop level, whereas, "tap outs" seem to happen at the camporee or summer camp level.

 

[MichaelOA]

Sorry, for leaving the topic slightly, but what is a tap out? And how is it any different than a call out?

[Gold Winger]

OA used to have a "tap out" ceremony in which the candidates were selected by being "tapped" on the shoulder. The tap was more of a clap. Alas, some got carried away and over the years a few boys were injured. Rather than attempt to educate the boys in appropriate tapping force, BSA discouraged the use of the tap and now OA candidates are "called" from the crowd.

 

 

[MichaelOA]

Our council does both kinda... We get all the OA Members at the camp and we have the four principles (not ordeal) North, South, East, and West, winds and they do a small intro, and then all the OA Members go into the crowd, and we look for the signal given by the scoutmaster as to which scout is a candidate we usually grab them by the arm and guide them to the circle formed out of candidates, each candidate gets two OA Members and after being dropped of the OA Members return to look for more candidates, and the boy waits until all candidates are found, in which time they follow the circle leading to the main principle (North Wind) and tell him their name, and troop #, and the principle will then announce it, and welcome the candidate, and two OA Guides take the boy in the back until after the ceremony is finished. So is ours more of a call out, or tap out?

[Gold Winger]

Grab out?

[MichaelOA]

Kinda, LOL It's different, but dunno what it really is...

[SR540Beaver]

I'm a Baptist, so I totally understand the "back in the good old days" talk. That being said, I am equally totally lost over those who lament over the callout replacing the tap out. To be fair, I quit scouting as a Webelos back in 1967, so I was never a boy scout. My son and I were both called out a couple of years ago, are both Brotherhood and he is on a ceremonies team now. I have heard a few of the old timers discuss how much better the old days were and how they were bruised up at their tap out. I still have never had it explained to me why they think the old way was better. Anyone?

[Gold Winger]

I don't regret missing out on the bruises but I do think that the symbology of the tap is more significant.

 

Of course in my chapter, the call out is a mere formality. Not only do you know that you've been elected before the ceremony so very few non-electees show up but if you don't come to the call out, you can still go to Ordeal.

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

GW,

 

There is no reason that electees should know they were elected prior to the call out. I've accompanied our chapter election teams to unit elections and the only person the team notifies is the SM. If he chooses to tell them, well shame on him. The call outs in our council is done at the district camporees. As long as a unit chooses to attend, they can participate in the call out and a boy can be surprised at his election.