who chooses adult members?

[emb021]

"And there's even Key 3 at unit level"

 

In all my years of being involved with the BSA, I've never heard of any 'unit level key 3', either on-line or in-person.

 

The term "Key 3" has always refered to either the OA or district/council leadership.

 

 

[SWScouter]

Back to the topic.

 

Lisabob, As Secret DE said, the scoutmaster should be at the top of the list. After that, I think the list should be sorted by those scouters that are working with the youth the most. Secret DE did make a mistake, he said three adults with 76 youth. It should be 101 youth, but whatever. Don't make too big a deal out of this, keep it simple and think which adult will best serve the youth. Remember there is always next year and the next too.

 

SWScouter

[AvidSM]

Just recently, my troop committee nominated an adult for the OA. There were two adults eligible and we were all very open and honest in debating who should get the nomination. Since both were equally deserving, we chose the adult who's son was just elected as an ordeal candidate. This made sense to us, since the father and son can do their ordeal toghether. Also, the father can now drive his son and the other youth candidates to the ordeal and back.

[Secret DE]

SWScouter is correct. Somehow in my explaination I got used standard for District Award of Merit for OA unit adults. My bad, I jumble a lot of numbers and ratios for work.

 

The Lodge Advisor and the Scout Executive as a team may waive camping requirements for non-unit Scouters. Once the Adult Selection Committee meets to approve Adult selectsions, they are forwarded to the Scout Executive for sign off.

 

In many Lodges the Scout Executive will defer, sometimes greatly, to the Lodge Advisor. This is an important item to understand as the Lodge Advisor and Scout Executive have a very interesting relationship. The only volunteer that the Scout Executive has the sole authority to appoint is the Lodge Advisor. So in many cases the Lodge Advisor is the last word by virture of his relationship with the Scout Executive.

 

Secret DE

[Oak Tree]

"In all my years of being involved with the BSA, I've never heard of any 'unit level key 3', either on-line or in-person."

 

Boy, this caught me by surprise. We fairly regularly use the terms "Pack Key 3" or "Troop Key 3" or "Unit Key 3" around here. But I googled around the web, and found only very sparse references to those terms. Now, those references did exist in a few very diverse locations, so I think it's safe to say that the terms do have a standard meaning - but I hadn't realized how uncommon it would be to do so. I would have assumed that most people on the board used them they way we do, but I guess that's not a warranted assumption.

 

Anyway, in all cases, the term does appear to mean what John says it does - SM/CC/COR (or more generically, UL/CC/COR - is UL an accepted abbreviation for Unit Leader?)

[Gold Winger]

" is UL an accepted abbreviation for Unit Leader?"

 

UL is an accepted acronym for "Underwriters Labratory."

 

 

[Gold Winger]

" As Secret DE said, the scoutmaster should be at the top of the list. After that, I think the list should be sorted by those scouters that are working with the youth the most."

 

Why? We are talking about nominating adults for OA, right? The selection is supposed to be based on who we think can offer the most to the OA not how much time he spends with his troop or youth in general.

 

 

[Secret DE]

GW,

 

I understand you question. Have you ever served as a Chapter Advisor, Lodge Advisor or member of an election team (youth or adult)? From what I can tell the biggest barrier for our Chapter Election Teams getting into a unit is how the Scoutmaster feels about the Order of the Arrow. In many cases if the Scoutmaster is not a fan of the Order, an election is not likely to happen.

 

I know, you can always argue that the Committee can force the issue, but you and I both know that many will not. Often times getting a unit's Scoutmaster involved can and does make a big difference in whether or not a unit will hold an OA election. This is also a golden opportunity to prove that the Order of the Arrow is about strengthening the units. Afterall what group of people to expose a Scoutmaster to, than OA?

 

I am sure that there are better and worse ideas that can be had for selecting unit leaders for membership in the Order of the Arrow. I am not going to be the one to tell anyone here that their idea isn't right. What I am saying is that in my Council we have found that Scoutmaster's who participate in the Order of the Arrow are more likely to promote the OA to thier unit youth.

 

Secret DE

[eisely]

It has been some time since I thought about this issue, but all of the posts are consistently correct in that there are no rules for how a unit committee should choose the adult candidates. I noticed one incorrect statement. The number of adult nominees a unit is allowed is based on the number of scouts in the unit, not the number of boys elected. However there is a different link between "boys elected" and adult nominations. In any given election cycle (in our lodge calendar year) the unit must elect at least one youth candidate to be eligible to nominate any adult. If no youth candidate is elected, no adult can be nominated.

 

Our lodge sends an election packet to all scoutmasters in January. This lays out out the rules and includes two forms. One form is for pertinent information about all youth eligible for election, and one form is for adult nominations. The last time I looked at the adult nomination form, there was no space for the scout executive to sign. District and lodge adult advisors had to sign, but not the executive. That may have changed.

 

I have not personally experienced the situation you describe where there are more adult eligibles than there are slots available for a unit.

 

I would suggest the following:

 

Have an adult in your unit who is already a member assume responsibility for this process. By virtue of already being a member, such an adult presumably would have fewer or no conflicts of interest. After all adult elgibles are identified, ask each one privately if they are interested. There is no point in nominating someone who is not interested. If you still have more eligibles than slots, I think I would run an election among the adults just as with the youth. The committee would have to devise the process and determine who can actually vote. All parents? Only registered adults? Only registered committee members? I would think that all registered adults should participate. Just my thought.

[BrotherhoodWWW]

Plenty of good answers so far. I'm not saying this is the "one correct way" but what my troop did this year is myself (CC + OA CA) the Scoutmaster and an ASM made the decision who to nominate. We had two likley adults in which to choose from. Both are currently serving as ASM's. Both had youth in our troop. One had a son that was elected. We choose the other. All three of us are OA members, myself and the ASM were elected as youth and our SM will be sealing his Brotherhood at the Ordeal weekend that the canidate youth of our troop are going to attend.

 

The ASM we nominated had more that we thought could offer the youth involved. He's a Hopi by birth and he is an EMT by trade. You can never have too many medical professionals around and with his resume adding to his current job he is even more of an asset.

 

I would not have brought this decision before our committee as I truely think they might have made their decision based on which deserves to be nominated. Even if the end result might have been the same he would have been nominated for the wrong reasons.

[Lisabob]

This has all been very helpful, thank you for your input. I was surprised to find out that there aren't more guidelines available regarding adult selection, but then I suppose it would be very difficult to pin down exactly what "future service to youth" means, too. And I was also surprised to discover that our "problem" such as it is, is not a common one.

 

 

[MichaelOA]

Found this thread, and something came to my mind. If for every 50 scouts, 1 adult leader may be elected for candidacy in the OA. Now what happens if we have a ASM who had come into our troop already a member of the OA, does he count as our 1 adult - 50 scouts, or since he was already a member before joining us can we still elect an adult leader?

[John-in-KC]

Michael,

 

Troops do not elect adult leaders for the Order. They select nominees for approval by the Scout Executive in his role as Supreme Chief of the Fire. I have seen adult nominees rejected at Council.

 

The ratio does not depend on whether there are Arrowmen Scouters. It's a raw comparison of youth to adults.

 

I have seen exceptions made to the ratio. Most common reason is a new unit where the Staff Adviser, Lodge Adviser, and Chapter Adviser want to jumpstart enthusiasm by getting some adults on board ... so that kids will come to events.

[SR540Beaver]

Michael,

 

Troops having more than fo registered, active youth may nominate an additional adult for every fo registered, active youth, or fraction thereof. A troop with 51 to 100 registered, active youth may nominate 2 adults each year if at least 1 youth has been elected. This is according to the BSA's OA website. Likewise, if you had 101 to 150 youth, you could nominate 3 adults.

[Vicki]

Michael, to answer your question - as you stated, your adult is already a member of the OA (presumably his dues are paid - if not, he will need to do that). If he is from another lodge, he'll have to get his membership transferred - there's a thread on that somewhere around here. Basically, he needs to call one of the lodge officers and get the ball rolling.

 

Either way, he does not count as one of your nominees since he has already completed the requirements for membership.

 

Vicki