The rule on getting called-out and completing your ordeal at an out of council camp

[eaglescout07]

My troop would like go to a summer camp that is out of council instead of the usual local council camp. We have some scouts who want to complete their ordeal next summer. What are the rules on getting called-out and completing your ordeal. My question is then: Can you get called-out at an out of council camp and complete your ordeal there? Any information would be helpful.

[scoutldr]

Yes. You will need a letter from your Lodge Chief and Lodge Advisor requesting the courtesy of conducting the callout and ordeal for you. Contact your lodge advisor for more details.

[sst3rd]

Speaking from my experiences only, this past year, our Lodge told us that there would be no more OA Elections allowed at our summer camp. Understanding that a fair amount of Scouts are "Called-Out" at summer camp, but our Lodge wants the Troops to have their elections before coming to summer camp using the Chapter Election Teams.

 

Our Lodge and Chapters promote OA Elections throughout the year at the Troops discretion. One per Troop per calendar year, please. So, as I have read here in this forum, some Lodges only allow elections during a brief time once a year. That's got to be bogus.

 

I've always heard that Scouts could be "Called-Out" at out of council summer camps with a letter from the home Lodge. Elections and Ordeals needed to be done at home. I've heard of one, but all other camps that I've experienced, have never had "Ordeals" offered as part of the summer camp program.

 

I didn't realize that there was this much variation across this country of ours.

 

sst3rd

[eaglescout07]

So do you think it all depends on my lodge or the out of council's willingness to conduct both a call-out and ordeal for these out-of-council scouts? It sounds like the call-out will be ok, what about the ordeal?

[John-in-KC]

I think these are great questions for a youth OATR to be asking the Chapter Chief and the Lodge Vice-Chief for Program!!!

 

In our Council, we have six opportunities each year for Candidates to take the Ordeal, and for Ordeal Members to seal their Membership:

 

MAY: We have two Induction Weekends. Much of the "Cheerful Service" rendered is to get the camp ready to receive paying guests

 

Camp Season: Our OA Reservation has three inductions, one during each camp session.

 

AUGUST: One induction weekend just ahead of Labor Day.

 

It'd be worth seeing what your Lodge does for annual induction program!

[Trevorum]

scoutldr is correct. Both lodges need to OK the plan in advance. As a youth, I was tapped out and went through ordeal with Tah-heetch at an out of council summer camp, but became a member of Walika when we returned home.

 

[mdutch]

Out of council call outs are permitted (so long as advance permission of both home lodge and out of council lodge are obtained). However, out of council ordeals are NOT allowed. See http://www.main.oa-bsa.org/annc/opup/opup-05-5.pdf for more information

[Trevorum]

Thanks for that link, meamemg! The policy must have been changed since 1968!

[eaglescout07]

Thanks a lot for all the help!

[scoutldr]

Interesting rule about no OOC ordeals. We live in a military town, and frequently, a scout or scouter will be called out, then they get transferred out of the area prior to the ordeal. If they move OOC prior to the ordeal, is there election nullified?

[mdutch]

Scoutldr,

In that case they would still be allowed to complete the ordeal, as conducted by their new lodge

From Guide to officers and advisors (http://www.main.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2006-Final.pdf page 23)

"If a candidate permanently relocates to a new Boy Scout council prior to completing the Ordeal, the candidate should immediately join a troop or team in the new council. A copy of the election report must be presented to the new unit leader to arrange induction in the new lodge. The candidacy period is not restarted or extended."

Also note, that out of council ordeals (according to this same source) are permited "when religious custom and observance precludes attendance at the Ordeals of a Scouts home lodge (e.g., Sabbath-observant Jewish Scouts). In this special case, the region Order of the Arrow chairman may be petitioned for an exception to permit the Scout to be inducted by

another lodge."

[scoutldr]

Thanks, meamemg. That sounds reasonable.

 

(I can't believe I said "there" instead of "their"...I am so embarrassed!)

[CalicoPenn]

Nope, holding elections at one period per year isn't bogus. In fact, the OA encourages Lodges to hold elections during one period per year, and recommends that they be held before summer camp.

 

Lodges choose the time of year for elections, and most lodges schedule the elections for the late winter/early spring season, sending election teams to the units during this time. Some good reasons for doing this is that most opportunities to complete the Ordeal start in May and run through September. Hold your election in October, and you have a long time to wait until the next Ordeal opportunity comes up - though candidates have a year to complete the Ordeal, the ideal is for the candidate to complete it as soon as possible - not to have to wait 7 or 8 months before they even get the chance. From a Lodge record keeping perspective, holding all elections in one short period of time also ensures that they have trained, qualified election teams available, and they they don't miss a unit when it comes time to hold elections. Lodges then only need to send out the appropriate letter and form once per year. Of course, Lodges have the option to do elections throughout the year. I can see this being an advantage for Lodges with lower population densities and large geographical areas to cover (something like Montana which I think has one council and therefore one lodge)where getting a few election teams around to units during one short period of time could be problematic logistically.

 

A Lodge is being smart when saying it no longer wants to hold elections at Summer Camp, but in the spring before camp instead. Why? Because the election requirements state that 50% of all active youth members of the unit MUST be in attendance in order to hold an election. If you have a unit with 40 active youth members in it (and this is Youth as defined by the OA - which includes Assistant Scoutmasters under the age of 21 - not Youth as defined by the BSA; and active per the OA also includes a college student who may be away at school but is still registered and still takes part in some activities when he is home - like attending a unit meeting, or going on a camp out) you need to have 20 of those active youth members at camp in order to hold an election. It is far easier to get those 20 to attend a meeting on a Tuesday night than to make sure you have enough going to summer camp.

 

Elections and Ordeals must be held within the home Lodge, with very limited exceptions that have already been pointed out. Call-outs may be held by an OOC lodge. I would be hesitant to do so and the only reason I can think for doing this is if a candidate is going to miss his in-council call-out (because the Lodge only does them at summer camp). The experience I have in my Lodge is that chapters do their call-outs at the Spring Camp-o-ree, but the neighboring Lodge does theirs only at Summer Camp (with a very impressive ceremony - I went to that summer camp (OOC) as a lad. Its important to note that a formal Call-out is not neccessary for a candidate to take part in his Ordeal. He is a candidate immediately upon election - not upon call-out. It is preferred that the candidate be called out - either at summer camp, a district camporee, or at least in a formal ceremony (which can be held at a Troop meeting, or Court-of-Honor - heck, it can be held on a unit camp out around the campfire one night, by OA members of the unit if needed). The Call-out ceremony is to publicly recognize that the lad was elected by his peers and is now a candidate for the OA. I've even seen call-outs where a ceremonial team member stated that the following candidates are not present at the ceremony but are called out as Ordeal Candidates by the Lodge/Chapter, then the list is read.

 

Trev - the policy on out of council Ordeals seems to have been changed sometime in 2005 or 2006, In the 2004 GOA, there is a listed procedure for completing out of council Ordeals - it was the same policy that was in existence when I was a Lodge Officer (talking in the hand mumble) years ago. The latest & greatest - the 2006 GOA has the policy change. I'd sure like to know what the impetus for that change was.

 

Calico

 

[John-in-KC]

Beyond the policy, it's worth talking with your local Council and Lodge.

 

I've already described the number of Ordeals we run each year. We also, during the summer season, open a provisional campsite for Candidates and Arrowmen wanting to do Ordeal, Brotherhood, or Cheerful Service at Scout Camp. The Reservation Director has a pool of adults he asks to support this campsite. We provide the two-deep leadership for young men.

 

The upsides of this are:

- Elangomats, Runners, non-staff C-Teamers, Ordeals going for Brotherhood have a home site where they can drop rucks.

 

- The workday morning, so do Candidates who come in for whatever reason.

 

- The adults providing leadership also assist Ranger with supervising work projects.

 

The LEC and the Staff Adviser simply have a common thought on getting Candidates to the Ordeal: Whatever it takes.