"No Secrets" is a Good Thing???

[BrotherhoodWWW]

"The great thing about the OA is that there are no secrets." Crew21_Adv wrote int the thread that this topic was spun from.

 

Perhaps I am in the minority in my way of thinking but I believe in secrets. I have been trained in Youth Protection annually since returning to Scouting as an adult leader. I think it is possible to have secrets and still have all the necessary protections for the youth involved. I think over the years the OA experience has been cheapened by overbearing well intentioned adults. Tapping can and has been done in such a way in the past that was not hazing or hurtful. Elements of the ceremonies have been kept secret for years and as a matter of fact are still. Even though there are secrets parents questions are still answered, as are the questions of other people with a ligitiment enquirey.

 

There are many great things about the Order of the Arrow. It helps to keep older Scouts interest in the program. For many camps it provides needed service that keep the camps running. It honors deserving Scouts for living their lives acording to the Scout Oath and Law regarless of their commitment to reaching higher ranks. Of all the Boy Scout programs it truely is youth led, not just ideally as many Troops. The fact that it is not "secret" IMHO seems to pale when compared to these things that are great.

[GernBlansten]

Perhaps not secrets, but mystery.

[Eamonn]

I'm happy with the way things are!!

Ea.

[acco40]

One of the finer albums of the 70s in my opinion.

 

:-)

[John-in-KC]

BrotherhoodWWW,

 

I think you need to go back and read OA manuals dating back to the Nineteen SIXTIES!!!

 

I think you also need to read the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America: We are not allowed to have SECRET SOCIETIES. NO HAZING is another rule of BSA. (Both of those are in my own OA manual, given me at my Ordeal (1969 reprint of the 1965 edition)). Mind you, if the Order was a secret society, there are churches in US Protestant Christendom which would start Matthew 18 discipline proceedings: Most Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod parishes fall into this category.

 

As Gern said, we use mystery as a program tool. Everything, literally everything, about the Order is and has been available to Scouters, parents, teachers, religious leaders ... anyone who has a legitimate interest. All the interested person need do is contact the Council Lodge Adviser (a volunteer), Staff Professional Adviser to the Lodge, or the SE.

 

You've hit a hot button with me on this one; I'm dealing with the mother of my Eagle over his membership in the Order and the Tribe of Mic-o-Say. She's thrown the secret society claim on the table, falsely. I've had to do some significant emotional damage control. Eagle son loves and appreciates the values of both the order and the Tribe. Equipping him to handle a confrontational, accusatory challenge has been a hard thing. Thankfully, good Scouters, Arrowmen and Tribesmen both, have helped me and him in this.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[eaglescout07]

I agree with Eamonn, the Order is awesome the way it is and is not "Secret"

[SctDad]

I went through my ordeal in the early 90's. Now my Son is in cub scouts and I hope that he sticks with it to Eagle. When I was selected, the scouts were tapped out. No one else knew who was tapped until the day of the ordeal.

 

Secrets are not needed. But there needs to be some close control over what is released to the inquisitive. The Order has a long tradition and sometimes these are things that not EVERYONE needs to know about. If a parent of an ordeal member asks, then they can be told as long as they understand about what it is meant when they ask for some mystery about what happens. If a member of the press comes out then they have no real right to have concern, as long as the parents are aware and there is no physical or emotional harm. But things are always done out in the open and under well approved two-deep leadership.

 

I think that there are too many people out there trying to find out more than they really need to.

[Gold Winger]

No secret societies is one thing but in the few years since my ordeal it has gone from "A parent may attend if they really insist" to "parents are invited to the ordeal ceremony."

[eolesen]

It has a published handbook... how much less of a secret can it be?...

[Gold Winger]

That handbook doesn't cover much about the orgnaization, it doesn't even include the admonition.

 

 

[epalmer84]

When you can buy Ceremony for the Ordeal and books on eBay, it is hard to keep secrets.

[Meteu]

Ok, ok.

(I have siad this on other occaisions also.)

 

The Order of the Arrow is not a secrect society. However, it is a private society.

 

We are not secret. We do not conceal our membership. In fact, we wear the most noticable item on a scout uniform, a bright white sash with a giant red arrow. We do not have hidden agendas, motives, or goals. We have a national website that clearly states our purpose, mission and policies.

 

However, we are private. Except for people of legitimate interest (and by interest, I mean religious or safety concern) our ceremonies are only availible to those who are members. It must stay that way. One of the bedrocks of the order is that the ceremonies and the experiences that candidates go through are significant, meaningful, and moving to them. How can this be accomplished if they know what's coming.

 

We also do not attemp to force our ceremonies or induction on anyone. In every ceremony, an oppertunity is allowed for those who do not want to continue to stop. Also, our ceremonies have been approved by every major religous group in the country.

 

Bottom line:We are not trying to be secretive in any thing we do. We are very open about our mission and activites. However, our symbolism is very private, but not cult-like, and must remain so for the order to be effective. The Order of the Arrow is not a secret society, but a private society.

 

In WWW,

Meteu

 

B

[John-in-KC]

Uh, Meteu,

 

You wrote: However, we are private. Except for people of legitimate interest (and by interest, I mean religious or safety concern) our ceremonies are only availible to those who are members

 

I think you need to go re-read assorted OA handbooks, the Officers/Advisers Guide, and have a long talk with your Professional Staff Adviser.

 

Interest is not limited to religion or safety. ANY concern by a person with appropriate interest can be legitimately addressed. Safety... values of the Candidate's family... faith... health... all are in-bounds for the tough question.

 

This is one of the few areas where a youth officer probably should defer to his adult Adviser (volunteer or Professional Service) and let them show the way. The last thing the Order, or Scouting needs is a parent pulling their child from Candidacy for the Ordeal, or indeed from Scouting... because a youth member officer didn't temper his interpretation of the rules with deference to an adults' questions.

[Meteu]

I'm sorry that I was not more clear on that:I did not mean tha religion and safety are the only legitimate interest.

[Meteu]

Oh, and also, I also know that standing in the way of some one who wished to see the ceremonies would not be appropriate, or reflect well on the order.

 

The entire point of that section of my comment was to say that not just anyone can see the ceremonies the same way that anyone can walk in to see a G-rated movie.