Scoutmaster's Approval

[sst3rd]

As a Scoutmaster of a "few" years, I have just realized that my interpretation of this final requirement for a Scout's qualification to be nominated for a Troop's annual OA Election, has changed over recent years (wow, what a run-on sentence).

 

Every year, it was usually clear. The Scouts that showed more than the average amount of Scouting Spirit and promoted camping in our Troop by simply going, learning, having a great time (sun or rain, hot or cold), and setting a great Scout example, were nominated for the election.

 

The last few years, it appears that I have "approved" Scouts for the Election, who were just not trouble makers. These were good Scouts, but they never really stuck out Spirit wise. And of course, the Scouts voted them all in.

 

You see, that's probably part of my problem. Up until a few years ago, the Scouts were limited in their voting. How many Scouts you could vote for, was directly related to how many Scouts were nominated. I forget the numbers, but it was something like: 4 nominated, you get to vote for 2; 5 nominated, you get to vote for 3, and so on. I could be off on those, but the point I'm making, is that now the Scouts can vote with no limits. They don't have to think and choose anymore. They figure if the Scoutmaster approved the candidates, they must be okay. Ouch, I don't like that. Also, didn't a candidate have to have a majority of those Scouts voting, and not just half?

 

Anyway, I guess you can tell that our annual OA Election is coming up right after summer camp, and our Troop OA members have been talking to me about candidates and who I might approve or not.

 

So, what are your thoughts, and how has your Troop Scoutmaster been applying this important requirement, "Scoutmaster's Approval.?

 

sst3rd

[Eagle309]

Unless the Scout in question is lacking in Scout spirit to the extent that I would not sign off on it as a rank requirement, I approve the Scout. I then have a talk with the Troop before the night of elections and explain to them the criteria they should be using in selecting or not selecting eligable Scouts.

 

The choice is then up to the boys as to who they feel exmplifys Scout spirit well enough to be chosen for this honor. I do not want to take this away from them by narrowing down the list. So far, IMO my Troop has made wise choices.

 

I also have assisted with OA elections for our Lodge. Despite the fact that all eligable scouts can be elected, I have not seen this occur at any of the elections I was present at. I even saw a Troop that had 14 eligable Scouts and only elected two.

[John-in-KC]

What Eagle 309 said.

[Lisabob]

I've seen the scenario sst3rd describes happen. I wonder if it has to do with the degree to which a troop is active in OA, or the extent to which the Lodge has its act together?

 

In the cases I've seen, it is a situation where people get voted in but very few follow up and even those that do, aren't active once they have gone through the process. Maybe because the Lodge tends not to be very visible/active. So, when voting, the boys in the troop have very little understanding of what OA is, or why it is important to choose carefully among potential new members. Consequently they may feel that it is just fine to vote for everyone who has the SM's approval.

[ASM162]

Our Troop holds OA elections about 3-4 months before summer camp. The scouts that meet the requirements to be eligible to be elected are nominated by the SM. (This includes scout spirit!) The OA Election committee runs the election and tallies the votes. I must say that the boys do a good job of selecting those who are deserving of the honor of becoming an OA member. Now that we have several scouts in the OA, we as adult leaders are trying to encourage them to pursue the additional opportunities that the OA has to offer.

[Dizzy ona cliff]

I would only exercise the option to not approve a scout in rare problem cases. If a scout is a little lazy or apathetic, then they may not even bother to attend the ordeal. If they are basically a good scout then the exposure may actually get them excited to become more motivated. At the worst they would just become another flapper, but even a flapper can be reenergized with the purpose many years later when their son wants to become a Tiger Cub. So it is hard to predict how far down the line results will actually happen.

 

[billpelger]

I am a scoutmaster of a relatively new troop 2 yrs old. We have one scout who may become OA elidigble, but I must admit, I will have a hard time approving him...but lets assume he is approved. Can the boys vote not to elect him? He is the class clown, goof off, rules do not apply to me (dad is an ASM who sent the cell phone to summer camp with son, rules stated to leave all electronic devices at home, dad does not attend summer camp), when others are working, he will play. He listed on his leadership application that he wanted to be a PL, nobody in the troop voted for him, including himself. So back to my question, can the boys vote NO on his election?

[mdutch]

Bill,

Yes, the scouts can definitely vote no. During the election, the OA election team will come to a troop meeting and explain a little bit about the OA, and what criteria are necessary for election (helpful, cheerful ect.) They then pass out ballots and have the boys in the troop vote. A scout must receive votes from at least half of the scouts who turn in ballots in order to become a candidate. If you have any other questions, please ask.

[John-in-KC]

Bill,

 

You also have the option of not certifying the young man for election to candidacy.

 

I recommend you visit with both your CC and your Chapter Adviser. They can provide lots of help for you in this tough call.

[sst3rd]

Bill,

 

 

Really, not a tough call for me based on what you've stated. For all of the negative qualities that you have listed, do NOT approve this candidate. I realize that you've stated he is your only candidate at this time, and if he's not approved, your Troop will not have an OA Election this year. Standards for the OA should be high. Make the announcement that there will be no OA Election this year because there are no qualified candidates for the Troop to vote for. Maybe this will start a Troop discussion where you can answer questions from the Scouts about the OA.

Our Troop's Election is this Monday. I've approved three candidates that are extremely committed to Scouting, but are very different in their personalities and character. They represent Scouting at its best. Having made the announcement of candidates for the Election at the past meeting, I had several Scouts come up to me and ask me point blank why they were not nominated. I had three quick but complete Scoutmaster Conferences on the spot. I made my points.

To answer your question, no, they can't vote against him, they just don't vote for him. Again, since there are currently no qualified candidates, there should be no OA Election this year.

 

Be strong and consistent.

 

sst3rd

[mdutch]

To add a couple of things:

You may want to consider having a conversation with the scout in question to see what they think. Explain your concerns to them. If they don't even want to be in the OA, it takes away the whole issue.

Also, even if you don't have any eligible scouts, you can (in most Lodges) still request that some members of the OA come in to talk to your troop about the OA, this way you can still build hype about it.

[NeilLup]

Good thread!

 

I have very rarely heard of a Troop electing all of the Scouts which are eligible candidates. Commonly, the Scouts are pretty selective.

 

Bill, to address your specific question, it is possible for no one from your Troop to be elected. If the Scout does not receive a positive vote from a majority of your Scouts, then the election team will immediately take a second vote. If he still does not receive a positive vote, then there will be no candidate from your Troop.

 

Actually, I believe that the current rules are tougher on the boys than the previous quote rules. Previously, you could tell a boy who was not elected "There's nothing wrong with you; you're a good Scout. It's just that the other candidates are good Scouts too and we could only elect so many. You'll have a great chance next year."

 

Now, there's no place to hide. Each candidate is considered on his merits and the only thing can do is the on-the-spot Scoutmaster Conference talking about how he needs to improve.

 

As a Scoutmaster, I would not be a gatekeeper unless there is some boy whom you feel has so bamboozled the Troop or who is so rich/politically prominent, etc. that the Troop members in a secret ballot would not really judge his character. I might exclude the Scout who hasn't shown up for several months and then shows up for the election. But by and large, I would let all eligible candidates stand for election. The Troop members know pretty well what's going on.

[acco40]

Unfortunately, from my observations, very few youth who get elected and go through their "Ordeal" remain active in the OA. Yes, they may pay their dues and thus remain "active" in the eyes of the BSA but I mean stay involved and attend OA functions. They just like the white sash or pocket flap!

 

Now, that said, what is the harm in letting the boys decide among eligible candidates, who gets elected? Let's say you have a "borderline" Scout. He gets elected. Will he go through his Ordeal? Will he learn anything from it? Will he remain active in the OA? Who knows but it the answer is yes to any of these questions I view that as a positive. If the answer is no to all, what harm has been done to others?

[croushorn]

All great advice! Like best that if he isnt good enough for a rank promotion, dont approve his candidacy. BEFORE the election night, sit down and have a talk with him explaining your decision so at least he is prepared and won't be blindsided by not seeing his own name on the eligibility list. Plus it allows you to tell him what is expected for next year's election. You may want to have this same talk with a parent with a committee member or ASM witness if you are expecting issues to come of it (try and head off any problems at the pass). That said, I rarely need to have that talk because those kids usually make themselves ineligible by failing to meet the camping requirements, anyways.

I am amazed, year after year how well the Scouts do in selecting the right ones. The borderline guys sometimes do fall out, and I need to have a follow up with them that they must remove their flap and no longer wear the sash at events. That will spark about one out of four, but most realize I am correct and remove it. Ive seen Eagle candidates get nailed at District BORs for being flappers. Not pretty. One kid thought they wouldnt approve his Eagle and began crying.

AND remember once the voting is done adult leaders have NO veto privilege! When its voted, its voted. So think through your approvals

 

[Twocubdad]

I require the elegible Scouts to let me know why the want to be in the OA, have a general understanding of what OA membership entails (meetings, etc.) and make a commitment to be active in the Order. I ask that the Scouts put this in writing, but if a Scout takes much initiative at all to let me know that he really interested, I will approve.

 

It bothers me that so many Scouts look at the OA as simply another cool patch. They get elected, go through the ordeal and never participate in any other OA activity.

 

Aside from that, whether or not I would sign off on a Scout for OA, jambo, Philmont or anything else generally depends on whether or not I feel like I can count on the Scout to behave himself and represent the troop well. Over time, I've had one or two I could not. In those situations, I'm won't to dump a problem on another leader.