OA and Venturing

[EagleScout441]

I have abandoned my argument in favor of Venturers joining the OA now that I have been informed of this: http://www.venturingcorps.com/

[jpstodwftexas]

why re-invent the wheel... just another division amoungst scouts... No Reason to exclude them from OA...No Reason not to except Venture Crews as Boy Scouts..Simply Because They Have Females..It is Time to Allow Youth Females into OA.

[EagleScout441]

why re-invent the wheel... just another division amoungst scouts... No Reason to exclude them from OA...No Reason not to except Venture Crews as Boy Scouts..Simply Because They Have Females..It is Time to Allow Youth Females into OA.

You currently hold the same position that I did a few days ago. But why should Venturers be allowed into the OA when they have their own society that Boy Scouts/Varsity Scouts aren't allowed into? If Venturers are allowed into the OA then Boy Scouts will want to know why they aren't allowed into the Corps of Discovery? Then we would have 2 societies that let both Venturers and Boy Scouts join. Yes, one is an honor society and the other is a service society, but their main goal is still the same: to strengthen the Scouts and their units through service and leadership.

[ScoutNut]

why re-invent the wheel... just another division amoungst scouts... No Reason to exclude them from OA...No Reason not to except Venture Crews as Boy Scouts..Simply Because They Have Females..It is Time to Allow Youth Females into OA.

The Corps of Discovery is something, relatively, brand new, is not anywhere near national, regional, or even local, in scope, and is not recognized by BSA.

It is currently considered a "grassroots movement" that was started in 1999 by a Crew in the BSA Northwest Suburban Council in Illinois. It faded out, and then was restarted last year, in 2012.

 

So, I would not paint this as "their own society that Boy Scouts/Varsity Scouts aren't allowed into". I would call this a struggling start-up with a long, long, way to go to prove itself as a viable organization.

[EagleScout441]

why re-invent the wheel... just another division amoungst scouts... No Reason to exclude them from OA...No Reason not to except Venture Crews as Boy Scouts..Simply Because They Have Females..It is Time to Allow Youth Females into OA.

How can it prove itself and possibly become an official organization if we don't support it and spread it? The OA started the same way.

[ScoutNut]

why re-invent the wheel... just another division amoungst scouts... No Reason to exclude them from OA...No Reason not to except Venture Crews as Boy Scouts..Simply Because They Have Females..It is Time to Allow Youth Females into OA.

I never said that it should not be supported.

 

However you stated - " But why should Venturers be allowed into the OA when they have their own society that Boy Scouts/Varsity Scouts aren't allowed into? If Venturers are allowed into the OA then Boy Scouts will want to know why they aren't allowed into the Corps of Discovery? Then we would have 2 societies that let both Venturers and Boy Scouts join."

 

What I said was it is a want-to-be organization that is under 1 year old. There is no way that you can say that Venturing CURRENTLY has "their own society". It might be true 10-20 years down the road, but CURRENTLY that statement is simply NOT accurate.

[qwazse]

why re-invent the wheel... just another division amoungst scouts... No Reason to exclude them from OA...No Reason not to except Venture Crews as Boy Scouts..Simply Because They Have Females..It is Time to Allow Youth Females into OA.

SN, although CoD has been operating in fits and starts over the past few years, so have most VOA's. As with everything with youth this age, there's room for optimism as long as they keep coming through the door. (Or, going out the door on the way to a super service project or activity!)

 

But, more importantly, we as advisors need to be encouraging. "Here's a challenge for you: pontentially personally rewarding, high likelihood it will never get off the ground. Do you want to give it a go?" Then, hope that VOA presidents start taking over the promotion. It's just like the chief in the O/A circle stopping in front of a candidate and saying "Do you wish to seek the arrow?"

 

But here's the deal: we know that there are young men and women like E441 who will pursue the sort of thing. So the question regarding the O/A is not a matter of fairness, like jpTex is posing. Rather, it's a matter of market share ...

Should the OA continue its current somewhat arbitrary policy and risk losing the contributions, if not outright membership of a few high energy youth to start-ups who will let them participate with their sisters and girlfriends?

[ChaiAdventure]

the report issued by national on the future of Venturing specifically states that Varsity would be included in the Venturing program which also includes Sea Scouts....I assume that this would mean the Varsity Teams would no longer be allowed to vote for OA candidates since they would be out of Boy Scouting...

[Eagle92]

Chai,

 

If varsity will fall under Venturing, will it be co-ed? LDS, which are the ones that created this program and the primary users I have had experience with, will not be happy.

[tgrimstead]

My daughter is a Venturer officer and a Den Chief for Webelos. Why not OA? No good answer. Corp of Discover? Say it with me people "seperate but equal".

[qwazse]

My daughter is a Venturer officer and a Den Chief for Webelos. Why not OA? No good answer. Corp of Discover? Say it with me people "seperate but equal".

tgr, where are the 11-13 y.o. pre-high school youth who would participate in her election?

 

Does she want to be in OA? Or, does she just want to do the great things that Arrowmen do? If she organizes her crew to spend a night under the stars and a day fasting while performing service in complete silence. All without the fussing over sashes, etc, designed for uniforms which many venturers never wear ... would that suffice?

[EagleScout441]

While the CoD(Corps of Discovery) is pretty much the Venturing version of OA, I still can't deny the fact that OA members have advantages that Venturers don't. I can think of 2: 1. The OA is a well known throughout the BSA as a honor society whose members are the "best of the best" in their troops/teams. The CoD is fairly new, and because of that most Venturers don't even know what it is, much less the other branches of the BSA. 2. There are OA only trips at every HA base, such as the OA Trail Crew at Philmont and the OA Wilderness Voyage at Northern Tier. Because the CoD is a not an official program, they have no opportunities such as these.

[jpstodwftexas]

Again I must ask WHY Do we want to continue to Separate the Memberships of all BSA Programs, Open Arms to Youth Members both Male and Female. Set Standards that can be Obtained by Both Males and Females. Yall Afraid Women will Start being elected to all the Youth Positions? Why Have More than 1 HONOR SOCIETY in Scouting?

[qwazse]

Again I must ask WHY Do we want to continue to Separate the Memberships of all BSA Programs, Open Arms to Youth Members both Male and Female. Set Standards that can be Obtained by Both Males and Females. Yall Afraid Women will Start being elected to all the Youth Positions? Why Have More than 1 HONOR SOCIETY in Scouting?

I like it. To the argument of fairness, you've added simplicity!

 

I'm afraid that still does not make the case to the constituents who would effect change. The young arrowmen need to conclude en masse that they would be better off with female youth venturers in thier order.

[jpstodwftexas]

I doubt many Youths would go against the "Old Guard" and Rebel against the Tradition yet. Look how Many Years it Took to get Cub scout Leaders and Women in OA. I get yelled at at our events because I bring things up in front of the Youths. Seems It has to be a Youth Idea only. If an adult brought it up ( ie...ME. it is to be ignored and not Considered). I understand the Youth VOTE on All issues..adults are only there to serve the Youth. My Lodge is quite tight Lipped about stuff..and Rarely has anything for Members. I have been back since September 2011 and We just had our First Fellowship in Years..We Have Winter Ordeal, Summer Ordeal, Summer Camp Call Out (Free watermelon for members and Candidates afterwards, we cut up 8 watermelons this year), what a big expense), and throw in Conclave and NOAC. I offered to get a Holiday Pot-Luck Dinner together and was told Lodge could not have it because we could not afford it. How Can you not afford a Pot-Luck Dinner where people bring Dishes? I am about ready to see about transferring to another Lodge even if it is 150 Miles away.