OA and Venturing

[EagleScout441]

Here's a question:

 

If a boy leaves scouting, does he loose his membership in O/A? (Considering some of the machinations of our soon-to-be-former chartered organizations, this may be relevant to more than venturers.)

If instead of multiple registration, a boy transfers to a crew (like E441 was thinking of doing, but maybe we'll talk him out of it ) does he get to retain his membership?

 

Y'all get where I'm going with this.

If a boy leaves scouting than yes he leaves the OA. One of the purposes of the OA is to strengthen the units of it's members. BTW I have decided on dual membership, that way I can keep working on my National Outdoor Badges. OA isn't the same as the NESA.

[walk in the woods]

"the OA was designed and is an honor society of Boy Scout campers"

1. OA is considered Scouting's Honor Society 2. Varsity Scouts are also allowed into the OA.

"how electing venturers to the OA is going to supporting the mission of the OA and improve my lodge?"

Venturers are older and, for the most part, more experienced than the average Boy Scout. Having Venturers in your lodge will give you better leadership, opinions and views of scouts from another branch of scouting, higher attendance, co-ed membership, and scouts with more high adventure experience, since that is what is Venturing is about, high adventure.

An interesting supposition, but, our last several lodge chiefs and lodge officers have been very capable HS and older young men. Venturing age but stayed in Boy Scouts. They came up through the ranks as Boy Scouts and served their lodge with distinction. Our last lodge chief was elected section chief.

 

The venture crews in our area can't camp with the most experienced boy scouts. Maybe that's not true for your crew, I hope it's not. Even National, after the Summit Shakedown in 2012, noted in their after action report that we can't assume Venturers know how to camp.

 

Co-ed membership, maybe that's a benefit, maybe not. Most of the time I witness co-ed scouting events I see otherwise capable young men turned into distracted idiots .

 

Venturing has such a wide set of options I think you might have trouble saying they have more high adventure experience. Again, in my district there are several troops that run HA programs every year, BWCA, Glacier Backpacking, etc. The crews in my district, not so much.

 

Even if Venturing is about High Adventure, the OA isn't. The OA is about Service. So, I'll repeat my question. How is allowing Venturing elections going to support the mission of the OA and improve my lodge?

[walk in the woods]

Here's a question:

 

If a boy leaves scouting, does he loose his membership in O/A? (Considering some of the machinations of our soon-to-be-former chartered organizations, this may be relevant to more than venturers.)

If instead of multiple registration, a boy transfers to a crew (like E441 was thinking of doing, but maybe we'll talk him out of it ) does he get to retain his membership?

 

Y'all get where I'm going with this.

One has to be a registered member of the BSA to be a dues paying member of the Order. Venturers can maintain their OA membership, they just can't be elected from that unit. Like Venturing, the OA considers a member a youth until they hit 21 years old.

 

It gets really complicated when you have a 19 YO ASM who suddenly turns into a 19 YO Youth at the OA Fellowship. My understanding is at the last NOAC they had bunking arrangements based on three age ranges (less than 18, 18 to 21 and greater than or equal to 21) then also by gender.

[EagleScout441]

"the OA was designed and is an honor society of Boy Scout campers"

1. OA is considered Scouting's Honor Society 2. Varsity Scouts are also allowed into the OA.

"how electing venturers to the OA is going to supporting the mission of the OA and improve my lodge?"

Venturers are older and, for the most part, more experienced than the average Boy Scout. Having Venturers in your lodge will give you better leadership, opinions and views of scouts from another branch of scouting, higher attendance, co-ed membership, and scouts with more high adventure experience, since that is what is Venturing is about, high adventure.

I am currently/technically not a member of Venturing, but I did spend a week at Kodiak Leadership Training(Kodiak Challenge), a Venturing Camp which let Boy Scouts in this year. I just found a good crew to join a couple weeks ago but I haven't had a chance to make my membership official. Hearing what Ventures have to say about the OA at Kodiak is what brought me to my position in this debate. Now, at the camp most of the Venturers seemed to be HA(High Adventure) oriented, rappelling, whitewater rafting, etc., but as emb021 said in the "Starting a New Venturing Program" thread:

"Venturing crews will fall into one of 5 categories: outdoors, arts/hobbies, sports, youth ministries (basically church youth groups), or Sea Scouts. When one speaks of "high adventure", its usually some of the outdoor crews, maybe also Sea Scouts.

Even then, the types of crews can be mindboggling to those not open to the possibilities. I know of role play game crews, anime crews, SAR crews, outdoor crews, scuba crews, sailing crews, music crews, soccer crews, church youth group crews, WWII re-enactment crews, Civil war re-enactment crews, mountainman/frontiersman crews and more."

So you're right about that, that is one of the flaws in my argument, many Venture Crews are vastly different compared to other crews. My view of Venturers is what I've seen in my council. Highly willing to serve and highly experienced scouts who love the outdoors, that is what I saw.

How will allowing Venturers into the OA support and improve your lodge? Let's say they only allow outdoor crews to have elections. Outdoor crews are basically upgraded Boy Scouts, that's what I have seen. Letting them in gives you older and, in many cases, more experienced scouts. HA seems to be one of the focuses of outdoor crews.

Just like the BSA has its divisions, Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, Venturing, and Sea Scouts, Venturing has its own divisions, but the scouts choose for themselves what the theme of their "division" will be.

[EagleScout441]

Here's a question:

 

If a boy leaves scouting, does he loose his membership in O/A? (Considering some of the machinations of our soon-to-be-former chartered organizations, this may be relevant to more than venturers.)

If instead of multiple registration, a boy transfers to a crew (like E441 was thinking of doing, but maybe we'll talk him out of it ) does he get to retain his membership?

 

Y'all get where I'm going with this.

College Scouting Reserve:

http://listserv.tcu.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind9010&L=scouts-l&D=0&P=2803

It is a way for scouts to stay involved while going to college and have little time for scouting or the OA. They aren't registered with any unit or district but instead with the council alone.

[qwazse]

Here's a question:

 

If a boy leaves scouting, does he loose his membership in O/A? (Considering some of the machinations of our soon-to-be-former chartered organizations, this may be relevant to more than venturers.)

If instead of multiple registration, a boy transfers to a crew (like E441 was thinking of doing, but maybe we'll talk him out of it ) does he get to retain his membership?

 

Y'all get where I'm going with this.

So if a boy transfers from a troop to a crew, does he lose his OA membership?

If so, how would you enforce it, and has anyone tried?

If not, then do we have a precedent of allowing venturers to be arrowmen?

[Eagle92]

Quazse,

 

Once you become an Arrowman, as long as you maintain your registration in the BSA and pay your lodge dues, you are active in the OA. I'll give some examples.

 

1) I am a registered CS leader, and am active with the OA. I got in as a youth a kept at it.

 

2) A Sea Scout Ship I joined was created by the OA lodge for the purpose of staffing our HA sea base. Only unit I ever knew of that had everyone, youth and adults, as Vigil Honor members.

 

3) I have friends who are registered with the summer camp Venturing Crew who are also Arrowmen,

[EagleScout441]

Here's a question:

 

If a boy leaves scouting, does he loose his membership in O/A? (Considering some of the machinations of our soon-to-be-former chartered organizations, this may be relevant to more than venturers.)

If instead of multiple registration, a boy transfers to a crew (like E441 was thinking of doing, but maybe we'll talk him out of it ) does he get to retain his membership?

 

Y'all get where I'm going with this.

Qwazse wrote:

"So if a boy transfers from a troop to a crew, does he lose his OA membership?"

No, he does not.

"If not, then do we have a precedent of allowing venturers to be arrowmen?"

Technically. If a Venture wants to be a arrowman he has to be elected as a Boy Scout or a Varsity Scout.

If a scout has dual membership with Venturing and Boy Scouts at the time of OA elections is he still eligible even though he is a Venturer?

[EagleScout441]

Quazse,

 

Once you become an Arrowman, as long as you maintain your registration in the BSA and pay your lodge dues, you are active in the OA. I'll give some examples.

 

1) I am a registered CS leader, and am active with the OA. I got in as a youth a kept at it.

 

2) A Sea Scout Ship I joined was created by the OA lodge for the purpose of staffing our HA sea base. Only unit I ever knew of that had everyone, youth and adults, as Vigil Honor members.

 

3) I have friends who are registered with the summer camp Venturing Crew who are also Arrowmen,

I think the question is whether or not a youth would have to be registered to a unit, whether it be a Venturing, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or Sea Scout unit, in order to continue being a OA member.

[qwazse]

Quazse,

 

Once you become an Arrowman, as long as you maintain your registration in the BSA and pay your lodge dues, you are active in the OA. I'll give some examples.

 

1) I am a registered CS leader, and am active with the OA. I got in as a youth a kept at it.

 

2) A Sea Scout Ship I joined was created by the OA lodge for the purpose of staffing our HA sea base. Only unit I ever knew of that had everyone, youth and adults, as Vigil Honor members.

 

3) I have friends who are registered with the summer camp Venturing Crew who are also Arrowmen,

Thanks E92. What I'm trying to fish for here is precedent where the OA considers a youth who was not member of a troop was still retained as an Arrowman. So, were you are any of your youth ship mates or any of the young summer camp crew *not* registered with a troop?

[Tokala]

"the OA was designed and is an honor society of Boy Scout campers"

1. OA is considered Scouting's Honor Society 2. Varsity Scouts are also allowed into the OA.

"how electing venturers to the OA is going to supporting the mission of the OA and improve my lodge?"

Venturers are older and, for the most part, more experienced than the average Boy Scout. Having Venturers in your lodge will give you better leadership, opinions and views of scouts from another branch of scouting, higher attendance, co-ed membership, and scouts with more high adventure experience, since that is what is Venturing is about, high adventure.

"Outdoor crews are basically upgraded Boy Scouts, that's what I have seen. Letting them in gives you older and, in many cases, more experienced scouts. "

 

That is contrary to what I find in my Council. The vast majority of Boy Scouts exhibit much better Scouting skills, maturity and leadership. Now, that doesn't meant that there are not similar youth in Crews.

 

I think you have to go back to when the OA was first added to the BSA and placed under the Boy Scout Program Group to find the reasons why it is for Boy Scouts only. Boy Scouts have ranks and advancement. Venturing has awards. It's a technical, verbal difference, but in the home office in Texas it is a huge difference. It will be interesting to see if there are any changes when Venturing goes through it's remodeling in 2014.

[Eagle92]

Quazse,

 

Once you become an Arrowman, as long as you maintain your registration in the BSA and pay your lodge dues, you are active in the OA. I'll give some examples.

 

1) I am a registered CS leader, and am active with the OA. I got in as a youth a kept at it.

 

2) A Sea Scout Ship I joined was created by the OA lodge for the purpose of staffing our HA sea base. Only unit I ever knew of that had everyone, youth and adults, as Vigil Honor members.

 

3) I have friends who are registered with the summer camp Venturing Crew who are also Arrowmen,

144,

Not to be a pain, but what is your definition of "Youth?" Smile

 

If by "Youth" you mean someone under the age of 18, then yes they have to be registered with troop, ship, team, or crew.

 

If by "Youth" you mean someone under 21, which is what the OA considers "youth." The above applies AND 18-20 can also be registered as an Assistant Den Leader, or on the District Committee, specifically as a Merit Badge Counselor or as a College Scouter Reserve ( position code 92 if memory serves compared to Unit College Scouter Reserve which is 92U, again if memory serves.

 

Qwazse,

 

Yep I know folks who were not registered with a troop, mostly with Crews but one guy duel registered with a crew and ship, retain OA membership. BUT all got in the OA as youth in a troop

[EagleScout441]

"the OA was designed and is an honor society of Boy Scout campers"

1. OA is considered Scouting's Honor Society 2. Varsity Scouts are also allowed into the OA.

"how electing venturers to the OA is going to supporting the mission of the OA and improve my lodge?"

Venturers are older and, for the most part, more experienced than the average Boy Scout. Having Venturers in your lodge will give you better leadership, opinions and views of scouts from another branch of scouting, higher attendance, co-ed membership, and scouts with more high adventure experience, since that is what is Venturing is about, high adventure.

The OA is a Boy Scout program but it is also a Varsity Scout program, under the revisions coming in 2014 Varsity Scouts "for membership purposes" will be classified as Venturers as well.

[EagleScout441]

The above comments bring up another issue. Why is it that OA considers under 21 members to be "youth" when the Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts consider over 18 members to be "adults"? A Boy Scout can be an adult in his troop but when he goes to OA events he's now a youth again. If a Boy Scout is between 18-21 how is he elected? He is not considered a youth in the troop but he also isn't considered an adult in the OA. While Venturing/Sea Scouts(if you consider them to be separate) have youth members up to 21. They're trying to keep "youth" Venturers from joining the OA as adults.

[Eagle92]

441,

 

Good question, I don't know. EMB can You Help? I am going to assume, and you know what can happen when you do that that it goes back to before the 1980s if memory serves me, when MALE Explorers could be elected into the OA still.