OA and Venturing

[SWScouter]

Varsity scouts are eligible for OA elections and Varsity teams are encouraged to hold OA elections.

 

From page 22 of the 2006 "Guide for Officers and advisers:"

 

In Boy Scout troops and Varsity Scout teams, every registered active member of the unit under age 21 at the time of election is eligible to vote.

 

A Boy Scout or Varsity Scout who carries a current national membership card and participates in at least some unit activities during the year is considered to be a registered active member of the unit. For example, a youth away at college who participates in some unit activities when home, such as a campout, camporee, or occasional unit meeting, should be considered a registered active member.

 

SWScouter

[John-in-KC]

Bumped from the depths.

 

Just in case you don't think the day is coming when the Chief Scout Executive and the National Committee of the Order of the Arrow will have to confront the issue of youth member women in the Order, I invite your attention to this:

 

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2012/01/16/hispanic-cub-scout-pack-comes-columbia/

 

http://media.columbiamissourian.com/multimedia/2012/01/15/media/011512_hispanicscouts025A_t_w600_h1200.jpg

 

It's Cubbing, but units, Chartered Partners and Councils are confonting the issue

 

Yes, she's also a member of LFL, not improperly registered as a Cub Scout.

[WAKWIB]

Oh, it's coming John. It's been a process, not an event. We've had 20 years of getting adult women firmly planted, comfortable and competent in the organization at both the volunteer and professional level. That was a very essential first step. It's complete now. Give it about another 10 years or so to incrementally bring girls into all aspects of Scouting. Our boys, who will be leaders someday, will see to that. I think, based on observation, that our Mic-O-Say program in KC is very slowly preparing for that eventuality.

 

[Eagle_23]

Seems to me that if a venture decided it wanted elections, it would be up to the crew to make themselvs elgible for them. The example i'm going to use is the hs band crews.

 

Say out there, there is a crew based around a high school marching band (i do hope i'm interpreting that right). Obviosly thats what they do, out doors isnt really part of their program. why would it, their focus is music and marching. but say you have a venturer or two who decides they want to be in the OA. Its up to them to find the requierments and change their program. In this case they would have to sell the crew and then add the camping element to their program. Not every member of the crew nesessarlly has to to the bronze. but they would have to buy into the camping.

 

If the crew takes it upon its self to make the changes they need to do elections, why not. If they dont want to make the changes to do it, then its their call.

[AJR2305GDC]

OA is part of the Boy Scout division, as is Varsity. Unless the BS Division program changes to co-ed, youth OA members could not be female.

 

(I hope I'm interpreting this correctly.)

[emb021]

"OA is part of the Boy Scout division, as is Varsity. Unless the BS Division program changes to co-ed, youth OA members could not be female.

 

(I hope I'm interpreting this correctly.) "

 

There are no longer program divisions (Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Venturing) in the BSA. They got rid of them about 3 years ago.

 

That said, the OA is considered part of the Boy Scout program, hence it no going co-ed etc.

 

 

[BadenP]

emb021

 

Come on now you already have BSA female leaders in the OA, do you really think coed boy scouts is really that far away? Most of the members of WOSM are coed and have been for years, it really is no longer a question of If as it is a question of When.

[sst3rd]

emb021,

 

The troop, district, and council I have been associated with all of my scouting career (38 years), have some of the most outstanding female leaders I've ever seen. And maybe it's just a matter of time. I just don't think it's any time soon. Maybe in the packs, but our troops run the program successfully on a variety of levels. Some troops are bigger than others for all of the normal reasons. But to incorporate girls in the mix, would dramatically change the dynamics as to completely change the program. I won't be there. And I am tired of hearing it.

 

sst3rd

[emb021]

sst3rd- not sure why you are telling me this.

 

I said nothing about whether I agreed or disagreed with co-ed scouting. Mearly stating the facts as they exist today. Nothing more.

 

 

[sst3rd]

emb021,

 

Many apologizes. The reply was in response to BadenP's comments. It's been a long day...........................

 

sst3rd

[EagleScout441]

Current OA Membership policy:

A few volunteer Scouters in the Boy Scouts of America have asked why OA unit elections are not

permitted in Venturing Crews. Crews are not authorized to conduct elections for two major reasons:

 

1. The Order of the Arrow is a program for Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts between the ages of

11 - 18. If that Boy Scout policy changes, the Order would readily welcome venturers into the

Brotherhood of Cheerful Service.

 

2. Venturers do not earn the First Class rank of the Boy Scouts of America, a key membership

requirement that must be met before a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout is eligible for election into

the Order of the Arrow.

 

Reasons why Venturers should be allowed into the OA using that policy:

 

"The Order of the Arrow is a program for Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts..."

The main theme of the OA is American Indian heritage, Varsity Scouts has two main themes: 1. Sports, which has nothing to do with camping or American Indian heritage. 2. High Adventure, it is camping and(in the process) partially(only partially) related to American Indians. Ventures on the other hand does more camping and is more involved, as far as history and events goes, than Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts[please see Outdoor Living History(Ranger Award elective), and TRUST Award requirement 3: Understanding Other Cultures].

 

"If that Boy Scout policy changes, the Order would readily welcome venturers into the

Brotherhood of Cheerful Service."

They(national OA leadership) are the only ones that have the authority to change the policy, so, obviously, when they change it they will "readily welcome Venturers."

 

"Venturers do not earn the First Class rank..."

Ventures do all those things, it just isn't for the rank of First Class. They never earn it because they never get the opportunity to earn it.

 

If anyone here can declare my statements as false or give an opposing argument than please do so. Otherwise, National OA leadership should come up with better reasons why Venturers aren't allowed into the Order of the Arrow.

And as far as the "going co-ed will cause a loss of membership" argument, when Ventures (at the time linked with Explorers) went co-ed in 1969 they gained membership. Last time I checked "gain" is the opposite of "loss."

 

 

 

 

 

[EagleScout441]

Also, the OA is not just a Boy Scout program it is also a Varsity Scout program, and the only reason Varsity Scouts are allowed is because they use the same rank system. If Ventures used the Tenderfoot-Eagle system, which, in a way, they do, then they would be welcomed in with open arms.

PS The Venturers don't want a rank system, they prefer just a complex award system.

[qwazse]

Also, the OA is not just a Boy Scout program it is also a Varsity Scout program, and the only reason Varsity Scouts are allowed is because they use the same rank system. If Ventures used the Tenderfoot-Eagle system, which, in a way, they do, then they would be welcomed in with open arms.

PS The Venturers don't want a rank system, they prefer just a complex award system.

I'm not an active arrowman, so my opinion is strictly from what I see in the youth in my troop.

 

It's nice to see young people keep bantering this about. The point of your argument is that it is entirely possible that a venturer, without being in a troop, can:

1. display tremendous scout spirit (vouched for by his/her advisor),

2. be a first-class scout even though he/she hasn't obtained that rank,

3. have done lots of camping with his/her unit and under the auspices of the BSA.

 

Therefore, what would make them any different than the current youth membership? There's only one thing that I can think of: who gets to vote them in?

 

I don't know if you've experienced any boys not getting elected, but it is a trying time for them. Why? Because it is real easy for a boy and his same-aged buddies to pat him on the back and he thinks he's doing scouting honorably. His SM may think so too, but then we older farts are 300 ft away and need our beauty sleep -- so sometimes we miss a little. Well (and this is especially true if you have your elections at summer camp, like we do), guess who the largest voting block in an average troop is? 11-12 year-olds! And trust me, they don't pull their punches! More than once, I've seen a scout who is neglecting the young ones not get elected.

 

Venturing deprives a youth of the critical evaluation of that peer group. The vote from a crew would only tell me how a candidate is seen among his high-school and college buddies. The lodge wants to know what the Jr. High kids think of him/her!

[EagleScout441]

What is the difference between High-School students voting in High-School students and Jr. High students voting in Jr. High students)? There is no age requirement, only rank(First Class) and experience(10 days and nights camping). If a Jr. High student(11-13 years old) has completed those requirements, what is to keep his "Jr. High buddies" from electing him into the OA?

[EagleScout441]

And Jr. High scouts, for the most part, is the inexperienced group of scouts. I would rather have highly experienced and more mature scouts who know what the ideals of scouting look like and are already in the OA, voting in new members.