Is This an Election Rule?

[mikeb]

My youngest son and I crossed over into a troop in March of this year. I was chatting with a scout (age 17) in the troop about the OA election that had taken place a few months back and he told me he wasn't allowed to be elected because he had left the troop for a year or so and had not been back in Scouting for quite 2 years yet. Is this a new rule, an old rule I have never heard of, or a bad case of someone making up their own rule? I have looked at everything I can find in print and can find no reference to this "two year" rule, and I'm worried that this young man has been robbed of the possibility of being elected. What do you all think?

[t158sm]

There is no such rule that I have ever heard of. If it's some kind of troop rule it sounds too strict.

Here are two links that describe national election guidelines:

 

http://www.coosa50.org/dnn3/Portals/0/CompleteUnit%20LeadersGuidebookfor2005.pdf

 

http://www.natsihi.org/forms/election_kit/ElectionGuidelines.pdf

 

Only thing that comes close is 15 nights of camping withing the last two years. Even so 15 nights of camping doesn't have to include all of the two years. (If 15 nights were accomplished in 6 monthes prior to election they would count.)

 

 

[scoutldr]

The camping requirement also includes a long term camp of at least 6 days/5 nights as part of the 15. Sounds like the scout maybe did not meet the camping requirement, but all he heard was "2 years".

[mikeb]

The young man in question is a Life scout on the edge of earning Eagle so I would guess he's met the camping requirement. I think I'm going to discreetly ask a few more questions to the young man and some of the Troop leaders. Has anyone ever heard of a Troop having a re-vote? What's the rule on this?

[nldscout]

One elecion per year, NO revotes.

[EagleWB]

If you are going to ask, the three questions you should ask are

1. Did he attend a resident or long term camp since he has come back to the Troop?

2. Does he have the rest of the 15 days/nights in overnight, weekend or other short-term camps since he has come back to the Troop?

3.And were the days/nights all in before the election?

But,as nldscout said one election per year.(This message has been edited by EagleWB)

[mikeb]

Ok, so the no re-vote rule tells me I shouldn't make a big deal out of this regardless of what I find out since it would most likely end up only causing hurt feelings and not helping this boys situation at all. There's always next year. Anybody ever see an 18 year old ASM standing with a bunch of 13 year old scouts at election time? Doesn't sound very pleasant.

[John-in-KC]

I'd recommend your unit OATR have a long talk with the Chapter Chief, Chapter Advisor, or Lodge Vice Chief for membership (depending on how your lodge structures itself). While the Lodge itself offers youth membership to age 21, I do not know if a "transitional Scouter" (18-20 year old young man) has to go through election, or if he enters under adult nomination procedures.

 

BTW, he, as well as every adult Candidate, will go through the identical Ordeal as the youth members

 

Knowing the depth and breadth of experience on this board, someone may well chime in with the answer, properly documented for you!!!

[CalicoPenn]

Under OA requirements for membership (according to the Guide for Officers and Advisors) all persons under the age of 21 are eligible for election as youth members, and only those who are 21 years of age or older are eligible to be candidates for adult membership (just so no one gets confused, once a member, always a member - provided dues are paid - if you become a member as a youth, you do not have to go through the process to become an adult member - it's automatic).

 

Under the election procedures section, it states that EVERY registered active member of Boy Scout troops AND Varsity Scout teams (not varsity patrols - Varsity Scout teams) under the age of 21 are eligible to vote in the elections. My read on this is that under 21-year old Assistant Scoutmasters, provided they are a registered member (and we already know National considers registration proof of being active) are allowed to vote in unit elections for the Order of the Arrow. I would take this also to mean that 18-20 year old Assistant Scoutmasters who are not yet Arrowmen but still meet the requirements (must be first class, camping requirements in the previous two years, registered in the BSA) are eligible to be ELECTED as a youth member from their Boy Scout troop. Indeed, they can't gain membership any other way - they must be elected.

 

They don't need to join a Varsity Team (where youth membership ends at age 21) - they can still be elected by the troop.

 

The key here is that this is election to the Order of the Arrow - and Boy Scout age requirements and aging-out doesn't apply. What applies is the Order of the Arrow requirements - and the Order of the Arrow still considers an 18-20 year old Assistant Scoutmaster a youth member of the Order of the Arrow.

 

CalicoPenn

[CalicoPenn]

One more thought pertaining to the 2-year rule. This doesn't mean someone needs to be a member continuously for 2 years. It means that one must complete the camping requirements within 2 years of election. If someone completes all the camping requirements in just 1 year, they are eligible to stand for election (and in very active troops, it is possible to meet the camping requirements in just one year). By the same token, the 2 year requirement to meet the camping requirements is a maximum. You must complete the camping requirements no more than 2 years prior to election. By example, if you complete 15 days in 2 years but your last long-term camp was 3 years ago, that long-term experience doesn't count so you aren't eligible to stand for election.

 

CalicoPenn

 

[SWScouter]

Just so there isn't any more confusion I would like to make one correction to what CalicoPenn wrote. Varsity scout youth membership ends at age 18, just like Boy scouts. Venturer youth membership ends at age 21.

 

SWScouter

[sst3rd]

mikeb,

 

Everything I've read up to this point clears things a bit. What I don't understand is, since you and your son have just graduated into this Troop one month ago, why are you trying to make waves so soon? You don't mention that you are an OA member or have past experience with the OA or Scouting for that matter.

Has it not occured to you that this Scoutmaster and adult Staff know the qualifications for OA youth election nominations? The Chapter Election Committee, with an adult advisor, is charged with working with this Troop's Scoutmaster in running the annual OA Election. Do you not think they are trained in the OA election process? Do you not think that this Troop has had prior OA Elections and knows what they're doing?

Although the Scouts vote in this annual election, OA nomination requirements must be met. The very last requirement that must be met, is the "Scoutmaster's Approval." Have you ever thought that maybe the Scoutmaster has lots of past knowledge of this particular Scout, and may not think he shows Scouting Spirit to the level he feels meets his approval?

So you want to discreetly ask a few "more" questions (meaning I guess that you've already started stirring the pot) of this young man and "some" of the Troop leaders. Do you have any idea what this sounds like you're trying to do?

You mentioned that this was your youngest son graduating. Does this mean that you had an older son in Scouting. In this Troop? If you are new with this Troop, have you joined as an adult leader yet. What position? Have you had Troop adult leader training yet? If you are still a supportive parent with the Troop, and not yet a registered adult leader, why are you so interested in correcting this perceived "wrong"?

I guess I would suggest that you talk to the Scoutmaster about all of this, but I just don't see why you think it is any of your business.

I may be "way" wrong about your presented situation. I can only go by what you have given. But, you asked what we thought.

 

sst3rd

[mikeb]

Wow, that's a really harsh letter. But since you asked...

 

I've been involved in Scouting in some varying degree since I became a Cub in 1970. I've earned my AOL, Eagle, been inducted in the OA, and have held the Vigil honor dear for over 20 years. I've held the positions of PL, SPL, JASM, and OA chapter chief. I've been an ASM, DL, WDL, MC for several troops and packs, OA Ceremonies advisor, and just plain parent who hangs out at troop meetings and drives a bunch of excited scouts to camping trips. I've been to more Unit, District, Council, and National events than you can shake a stick at. I've also had more training than the law should allow.

 

Most of all I'm just a friendly guy who knows that he doesn't know everything and would never dream of coming off as the OA police or some such thing.

 

Thus I came here for a little info as I haven't been active in the OA in a serious way since my youth and in a non-serious way since my oldest left scouting a half dozen years ago.

 

I haven't "stirred any pots."

 

I haven't spoken with anyone in the troop regarding this other than the initial conversation with the young man in question.

 

I believe the folks in the troop do a GREAT job and know what they are doing, otherwise I wouldn't have joined this unit.

 

The truth most likely is that this young man failed to meet one of the requirements and a few very-friendly-non-challenging questions will reveal as much.

 

If it happens to be a mistake and the person responsible for excluding him learns from this as I did then we all learn something that hopefully will never happen in this unit again.

 

Heck it might even take me months to find the magic moment to ask a few questions, I may never do it.

 

In fact the more I think about the grief it could bring to this young man to know he could have been elected (if that's the case,) the more I think I should just leave this alone.

 

BTW, how would you feel if it were your son?

[acco40]

One simple requirement for OA elections that seems to be forgotten by most is the following: Approval of the Scoutmaster. I'm just guessing but if the Scout left the troop for a year or so and had not been back in Scouting for quite 2 years maybe the SM did not give approval.

 

[John-in-KC]

Given CalicoPenn's and acco40s comments (thank you both!! )...

 

If a SM and CC are willing next year to take on an otherwise eligible 18-20 year old young man as an ASM, who otherwise meets Order membership guidelines, AND ARE NOT WILLING TO CERTIFY HIM FOR ELECTION TO CANDIDACY, something is very, very wrong in that units' leader selection process.

 

As a COR, I would be discussing things with the SM, the CC, and the IH!!!!

 

YIS/ICS/F&W (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)