OA and Cub Scouts

[eagle97_78]

I don't know if anyone has looked at the OA websit at the LLD training program and seen the Allowat meets Akela training section. I am truly stuck between a rock and a hard place. I work on my District Committee and I am a Lodge Committee Advisor. I support all programs of scouting all the time, but we are seeming to have problems what comes first OA events or council/district events. The material for OA says that they lodge supports the council and the chapter supports the district, and the boys go back and support there units. Well the big problem is that certain members of our lodge say that the lodge events are more important, but the only reach about 50-100 people each time. The council/district events reach anywhere from 50 to 800 people(I know that is a big margin, but it is true depending on the event). The new LLD progran say that OA is to support Cub Scouting by staffing events, promoting Cub Scout camping, and etc etc etc.Our lodge feels that they don't need to do really anything for Cub Scouting. I need some suggestions on what to do . Please help.

[Greying Beaver]

Look at helping with CS event as "advertizing" for the boy scouts in general, the troop that is helping, and the Lodge as well. For most CS families, they are not familiar with the boy scout program, including O.A. and Wood Badge.

 

I put the two together because they show that the scout and/or scouter has bought into the program, "MOC(member of the club), if you will.

 

The first time that I wore my uniform to a pack meeting (after having to do the "velcro and loop shuffle")I had a few parents ask me about the "pretty embroirdered patch on your pocket flap" and how to get one, as well as my Wood Badge beads. No adults in the pack are either O.A. or Wood Badge. So I told them. I'm looking for an "excuse" to wear my sash, too. I'm trying the get some of our dancers to put on a demostration at a pack meeting. Advertise!

 

Units used to do neighborhood "good turn" projects. Invite the local chapter to help and ask them to wear their sashes. Our rule of thumb is that if 5 arrowmen participate in the event, they wear their sashes (and get them a little dirtier, too . . .).

 

Cub Scouts and O.A. are both part of the BSA.

 

 

[Lisabob]

Wow is that a short-sighted attitude. As a former cub leader this is JUST the kind of attitude from some (all too common in my experience!) in the Boy Scout end of programming that really ticks me off. Where do these folks in your lodge think most boy scouts (and hence, most OA members) come from, if not from the cub scout program? Have they spent any time lately actually talking with any cub leaders about their cub outdoor programs??? I hope these same people aren't ever caught bemoaning boy scout recruiting trends...

 

At the very least, maybe you can suggest that participation in activities directly linked to encouraging webelos-scout transition have an obvious pay off. Things like "webelos woods" or sending dance teams to blue&golds, etc..

 

Thankfully the OA lodge in our area takes a different view and they have helped organize some of the best Cub outdoor programs I've been to in our district. It is a win-win situation. We (Cub leaders) got help providing great outdoor programs, which is harder at the cub level because many cub leaders are still developing their own outdoor skills. Cub boys were awe-struck by those "cool" OA members and maybe a few more will stay in scouts past Cubbing as a result. OA got recognition, exposure, and new interest.

 

OK I'll get off the soap box now.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

 

 

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

I'm willing to bet that 99% of the boys and adults in OA were involved in Cubs. I've done a fair amount of recruiting for Boy Scouts and it is my experience that it is darned near impossible to sign up a boy from off the street. The vast majority of Boy Scouts came from Cub Scouts. Put it to them this way, "If you don't tend the "garden", there will be no harvest".

[gwd-scouter]

Many moons ago, our District had Cuboree every fall and the OA Chapter would cook breakfast for everyone on Saturday morning. They also helped organize and run the campfire program on Friday night. Cubs loved it.

 

Then, District Cuborees ended. Council wanted to promote the Cub/Parent weekends held every fall at our Scout Camp so they decided individual districts could not hold Cuborees.

 

Added to that, we have many Scoutmasters in our District that feel very strongly that Cubscouts (even Webelos Scouts) should not be invited to Scout Camporees. As a SM, I would very much like to encourage Webelos Dens to join our troop on an outing, especially a Camporee where they could see the Boy Scouts in action. But, this will be seriously frowned on. It has been worked out (grudgingly) that Cubscouts will be invited only to our Spring Boy Scout Camporees.

 

Also, even in our Scout Camporees, the OA and Scouts themselves have not run a campfire program for 2 years. The adults organizing the Camporee have done the campfire program. Our local OA chapter has not been active in anything District-wide for a number of years and has a few individuals participate in Council events, but not as many as I know have been elected into the Order - I think that's a shame.

 

I too believe that without the Cubs the Boy Scouts won't last. Of course there are quite of number of folks that remind me that Boy Scouting was around for many years before Cub Scouting and managed to grow in numbers. While that's true, I don't think 11-12 year old boys back in the 20s had the same diversions that boys today have and I think we have to hook them young!

 

 

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

There are times for the Supreme Chief of the Fire to lay down the law. THIS IS ONE OF THEM!!!

 

Council Camping Committee responsibilities (what is OA: The Honor CAMPING society of Scouting??? Hmmm...) include Cub day camps, family camping opportunities and Webelos camps. OA falls under purview of council camping.

 

There is a systemic failure if the Lodge *ISN'T* supporting Cub Scouting, whether it be Arrowmen in the Troop reaching back to the Pack, the Chapter reaching back to Day Camp, or the Lodge reaching back across the Council camping program.

[Proud Eagle]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that supporting Cub Scouting is not a critical mission of the OA. Is it a nice thing to do when practical? Sure. Is it necessary? No.

 

If you look at the purpose of the OA you will see that it doesn't really have much of anything to do with many of the new initiatives being sent down from on high. While these programs are all great ideas, they don't all work well on a nation wide basis. I think what often happens with OA is some idea that has been made to work in one lodge is made into a national initiative without first finding out if it can be readily made to work in some other lodge.

 

I know we usually lag at least two years behind in actually getting most new initiatives up and running. However, by the time you are ready to give it a trial run, the national focus has moved on to some other newer program. So then the energy and attention starts to shift and pretty soon the program dies out without ever really having had a chance to live.

 

I don't know about other places, but I find we have trouble just getting the basics working right around here. If we can help out the Cubs, I am all for it. I probably won't get personally involved, but then again I am tottering on the edge of Scouting over-load most of the time in any case (as are most other lodge, council, and district level Scouters now that I think about it). Also, I don't really find much of anything to enjoy in Cub Scouting, and my personal skills and experiences make me far more valuable serving parts of the program other than Cub Scouts.

 

Something I have always noticed is that at NOAC training there is stuff for small lodges and large lodges, but very little targeted at mid-size lodges. Most lodges I know of in this area are in the middle in terms of membership, but cover geographic areas that are quite large. The lodges are too spread out to administer without chapters, but most chapters don't have enough members to function very well. It is a constant struggle. About the time we have chapters up and running, then council changes its districts. Of coarse since we never know if district changes are permanent or temporary, we then sit around with chapter and district lines that don't come even close to matching for months on end. Then about the time we change chapters, districts change yet again. I can only imagine what it is like in some of the places out west where population densities and numbers of Scouts are even lower while geographic areas are even larger. However, things are looking up. We have a first class Scout Executive now, our council volunteers are being reorganized, and the councils finances are stabalizing. For the lodge we have new officers coming on board and a new year about to start fresh (OK, I won't exactly be any fresher come Jan. 1, nor will the staff advisor, but oh well).

 

All that being said, I think it is perhaps a bit of an exageration to say:

There is a systemic failure if the Lodge *ISN'T* supporting Cub Scouting, whether it be Arrowmen in the Troop reaching back to the Pack, the Chapter reaching back to Day Camp, or the Lodge reaching back across the Council camping program.

[John-in-KC]

Mr PE,

 

I'm going to respectfully agree to disagree with you.

 

First, Cub Scouting is the fertile soil from which Boy Scouts (and Arrowmen) grow. 8-10 year olds like seeing older teen boys doing cool things. For our program purposes, that means Boy Scouts!

 

Second, OA is the honor camping society of the Boy Scouting program. Over the years, Cub Scouting has increased the camping available to it. In my Council, we have Family Camping for the entry level Bears (2 day, 1 night, 1 parent/1 youth resident camp program chock full of activities); 2 years of 4 day/3 night Webelos camping, and then they off to Boy Scouting. We need the Lodge to support this, to show leadership in action, to be present with (in our council) arrow necklaces with all their Lodge coups. Let's not forget Day Camp, with its ongoing need for J-staff (and how many young men can get their first taste of work serving for a week of fun with young boys?)

 

As I see things, National is trying to move the entire program towards a seamless whole. The Lodge is a viable and valuable tool for this; we need these young men to reach back and support parents and leaders who never heard of Scouting until Pack recruitment night, as well as parents and leaders who are 2d or 3d generation Scouts and/or Arrowmen.

 

YIS

John

Ordeal Walika 228 (SFV Council) 1970

Brotherhood Walika 228 (SFV Council) 1971

now an adult with Tamegonit (not 147) (HOAC Council) since 2002