Why no Lodge Chief position patch?

[TheScout]

It seems to me that this is a misguided discussion. Why is it important that the Lodge Chief shows off his status. What ever happened to a dose of humility?

[BrotherhoodWWW]

The Scout, why is it boastful to have and wear an OA position patch and yet not so for any other position patch. I can think of plenty of reasons why a youth might want an OA position patch. With your line of reasoning why have three distinct sashes? Heck lets abolish rank badges too for that matter. Lodge officers spend plenty of time serving their fellow arrowmen and fellow scouts as well as in some cases their communities. When they are acting in thier official capacity as a Lodge officer why not let them show their position. Not only that but new arrowmen might actually be able to find their Lodge officers at a Lodge event if the officers have a position patch on their sleeve. Many of these arrowmen are over 18 and not yet 21. They do great things for the movement of Scouting, much more in fact than just possibly being an asst. Scoutmaster, which seems a likely role that an 18 yo Lodge Chief may hold in his home unit.

[Oak Tree]

The argument that position patches only exist for positions that count for rank advancement seems a little bit bogus. There is an Assistant Patrol Leader patch, and that position does not count for any advancement.

 

The best argument I see is that the patches conflict somewhat with the idea that your first duty is to your unit.

 

But I would have no issue with a decision either way.

[TheScout]

I think I agree with Oak Tree. I could not care either way.

 

BrotherhoodWWW, to be accorded an honor or position and given a badge for it and wearing it is standard.

 

To agitate for more patches for greater recognition seems to be in poor taste.

[John-in-KC]

This thread has been pole vaulting over a mouse turd far too long.

 

To my youth brethren: Let''s apply the KISS Method to the problem. Lodge Chiefs, ask your Advisers and Staff Advisers to go to the Supreme Chief of the Fire (your friendly SE).

 

Ask permission to mint a temporary patch for the right shirt pocket which becomes your LEC member patch. If you really want to get fancy, ask a local MOM with a sewing machine to embroider the word CHIEF on the patch. Buy enough that LECs 5-7 years from now can have patches, and make the production economical from a budget POV.

 

Option B: Push this noodle uphill through the Sections and Regions so the National Officers and the National OA committee can make a decision.

 

Option C: Do nothing.

 

Other possibilities: Has anyone ever thought of the Lodge T-shirt with an LEC member overprint? Has anyone ever thought of a polypro vest with LEC on it to wear over the de la Renta Parlour Scouts shirt?

 

There's more than one way to skin this cat, quit pole vaulting over the mouse turd and get on with doing it!

 

John

who once was under 21, isn't anymore, and who prefers "getting it done" to "talking about it" anymore...

 

Edited to add: PS, be careful of what you ask for with option B. You may get a permanent decision you won't like. That's called a second order consequence!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[kb6jra]

 

"This thread has been pole vaulting over a mouse turd far too long"

 

I swear to God I get more usefull stuff form this website every day...Thanks John for this gem, I''m gonna use it often.

 

Oh, and it would be nice to have some sort of recognition for the youth that serve. My son was a CC, and he was expected to work that job. He was a member of the Dist Committee of sorts and reported to them monthly. He was recognized by the DE during the annual District Dinner, but any form of recognition of their position during the tenure I would be in favor of.

 

WWW

[mason11031]

I believe that as a matter of setting the example for the other youth, the Lodge Chief and Chapter Chiefs should wear their unit numerals and patch according to their position of responsibility within their troops. As a matter for identification, if you need a position patch and shoulder loops to identify yourself as a lodge leader then you are not taking full advantage of the concept of servant leadership. Identification as a lodge leader should be based upon one's character and the example they set for their fellow Arrowmen. The content and quality of our character is the only identification we need as Arrowmen.

[shortridge]

Reviving an old thread... another alternative is for lodges and chapters to create some sort of totem to be worn with the uniform that signifies the position. My old lodge had a very ornate - but simple - beaded leather necklace that was passed down from lodge chief to lodge chief. No one else wore similar totems.

 

There's also the option of a nametag, which most lodge officers in my term wore.

[Eagle92]

haven't read the entire post, don't have time at the moment, but at one time there was a Lodge Cjhief and Chapter Chief POR patches. Unfortunately the group that decides on insignia didn't approve it before Supply started issuing them that's why it's a collector item as they were supposed to be destroyed. I do know that some were thrown away, only to have some folks do some dumpster diving to retrieve them.

 

 

My question is this, if there is now a VOA president patch for the senior council venturing youth, why not a lodge chief POR.

 

I've seen repros worn, with no unit insignia and silver loops. I've also seen LC and CC wear Council Exec Comm. abd Distr. comm. insigina with silver. My current CC wears silver and has Dist Committee POR on as he is the youth representative on the DC,.

[John-in-KC]

I refer my youth brothers (who are the voters in our Order) in Cheerful Service to the following:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=86625&p=3#id_167269

 

I re-emphasize the point of going through channels and asking the National OA Committee for this. Be careful of what you ask for (a decision)... you just might get one, and it may not be the one you like.

 

Second-order consequences can bite.

[alex.call806]

"Your primary responisbility should be to your unit".

As a lodge chief, I have more than 1 uniform. On a couple, I have the traditional green epaulets with unit numerals, and I wear those uniforms when I am participating in unit events. HOWEVER, I have a few other uniforms in which I wear the silver epualets to signify "Council Executive Board Member/Council Employee", no unit numerals, and a council executive board patch. I would love to be able to wear a Lodge Chief patch on one of my uniforms, and cannot understand why the National Council cannot understand that some scouters have MULTIPLE uniforms that they wear at different times depending on what they are doing.

[gsdad]

Shortridge- that sounds a lot like my lodge (Unami 1).

 

I think a special lodge flap would be sufficient. As for the unit numerals and shoulder loops, when I was a youth I worked on summer camp staff, as did most of the LEC and we did not wear unit numerals on our shirts for the summer. If I was at a unit event, I wore my troop uniform shirt, if I was at a Lodge function, I wore my "camp" uniforms.

[sherminator505]

I think that the primary reason that these patches don't exist is because no one registers as a lodge chief or chapter chief, or as a member of a chapter or lodge for that matter. They register as a member or leader of a Troop, Pack, Post, Crew or Ship, or into a district or council position.

 

It is for this reason I have often wondered why chapter advisor and lodge advisor patches do exist, as these do not (or should not) reflect the Scouter's primary Scouting job.

 

On the flip side, there are a lot of instances where we could use more descriptive position titles, particularly where commissioners are concerned.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[83_Eagle_T148]

Congrats on the election, Chief! A poster above has the correct answer, an Order of the Arrow Lodge is not a scouting unit, and no member is registered to a lodge. You're position patch should represent your position with your registered unit. The only OA office patches are for adult positions, as those positions actually exist in the unit the adult is registered with. Your adviser positions actual exist on the correct committee, district, council, area, region, ect, not within the lodge, ect.

 

In as far as a no man's land, that's not accurate. Various scouting units have different definitions of adult member. It is the Explorer definition, 21 years of age, that the OA uses. If you are over 18, and registered with a Boy Scout unit, you should have a position there, Assistant Scout Master, ect. Lodge Chief is an office, not a position.

 

Coming from one who has stood in your shoes, I can tell you that you have a busy year ahead of you! Your leadership, and service, should identify you clearly enough as the Lodge Chief.

[Eagle92]

Well they have District, Council, Area, Regional, and National level youth Venturing POR patches, why not the OA, esp since it's been around since 1915? All the arguments against OA POR patches should also apply to the Venturing POR patches.

 

My $.02 worth. But I may be bias in that I was an OA CA and know how much work the job of CC and LC entails.

 

Also one other thing came to mind. Over 18 is an adult leader in the Boy Scouts, hence 18-21 yo Arrowmen, while YOUTH in the OA are SCOUTERS in units. If over 21 y.o. SCOUTERS can have PORs related to the OA, why not the 18-21 y.o.s?