OA question re: amount of time in which to do your ordeal

[yarrow]

We are getting mixed messages. we have 2 scouts that didn't get their ordeal done last year. Some have told us they need to be re-elected, some say they have 2 years in which to do it.

 

Please let me know your reference.

THanks

[Double Eagle]

Per my lodge officer guidebook, its one year. If there were extraordinary circumstances why the candidate couldn't attend any ordeal, you may take this up with the top 3 of the lodge. It will be scrutinized. Why didn't/couldn't they attend any ordeal?

[Proud Eagle]

To find the latest policies on such things always check the Order of the Arrow Guide for Officers and Advisers and the Guide to Inductions.

 

In this case, what you will find is that newly elected candidates have one year to complete the Ordeal.

 

The Executive Committee of each lodge has the power to grant an extension to that one year period. Should you feel the situation in this case warrants special treatment, you could take the matter up with the Lodge Executive Committee. If you are not currently involved in the business of the lodge, you should start by contacting the Lodge Adviser and Lodge Chief to discuss this issue.

 

 

 

Now, in my experience, there are many candidates who do not complete the Ordeal for a great variety of reasons. Some of them run into scheduling conflicts. Some decide they are not interested. On rare occasions a genuine emergency gets in the way.

 

However, in the 5 years or so I have been involved in the lodge, I don't know of a single case where the Lodge Executive Committee has approved an extension. In fact, I can't even think of a case where someone asked for it. Usually people wait until the next election and the candidates will probably (though there is some risk to this) be re-elected.

[VAordeal]

The way it is run in my troop and from my understanding the way the OA governing body sees it is that you have 2 chances to make an ordeal. If you dont then you must be reelected.

[blade1158]

"Candidate status. After election, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts or adults remain candidates until completion of the Ordeal and Ordeal ceremony. If this period of candidacy exceeds one year, the candidate's name will be dropped. To become candidates again, they must be reelected. The executive committee of the lodge may extend the one year limit between election and induction if a candidate is ill or there are other unusual circumstances."

 

page 23, Guide for Officers and Advisers, 2004

[acco40]

Blade - what constitutes an election? In our troop, the boys/adult are "elected" in February. They are not "called out" until the late June. They do not become a "candidate" until their call-out, not from the election. Therefore, they have a chance to complete their ordeal (in-council) in either September (about three months after the call-out) or in May (about 11 months after the call-out but a full year and three months after the election.) They are not aware of their election until the call-out.

[Proud Eagle]

In a troop or team, an eligible youth under the age of 21 who is elected by his peers becomes a candidate immediately. He could go through the Ordeal the next day.

 

Now, in practice, it isn't fair to set up a system wear the candidate looses an opportunity to go through the Ordeal because his troop held its election too early.

 

So, that would, in my mind, be a potential unusual circumstance and the Lodge Executive Committee could approve an extension. In fact, it could even make a blanket extension for all those elected early.

 

Now the long term fix for this is to change the way elections, ordeals, and call-out are scheduled during the annual calendar planning. There are 12 months in a year. That is plenty of time to conduct elections, hold call-outs, and still give a candidate more than one chance to go through the Ordeal.

 

However, keep in mind, that technically, a person is a candidate from the time the election is completed, not from the time of call-out. There is no requirement that a candidate be called out. Let me repeat that, there is no requirement that a candidate be called out.

 

Now, for adults, they are candidates from the time they are approved by the lodge's adult selection committee. The troop or team committee nominates adults to the lodge adult selection committee. That committee must then approve the nomination before the adult is a candidate.

 

So, to review, for youth they have one year from time of election, and for adults, they have one year from time of approval. There could be one Ordeal, or there could be 12 Ordeals during that year. It doesn't really matter. They still get one year to complete the Ordeal.(This message has been edited by Proud Eagle)

[blade1158]

A scout or scouter is a candidate after election.

 

Any difficulties in the time between the election, the call out and the ordeal is the fault of the lodge, not the system. Most lodges hold multiple ordeals every year. In my lodge our main ordeal is held at summer camp. We hold ordeals in the spring and fall for those who don't go through the ordeal at camp.

[acco40]

Why penalize, start the time clock, for a Scout or Scouter who has no idea he is a candidate?

 

Our Lodge, correctly or incorrectly, encourages units to hold elections in January and February. Being youth run, the paperwork seems to go a little slow so they want to make sure no snafus exist for the great majority of Scouts and Scouters who get called out during summer camp (June/July). The Lodge holds ordeal weekends in September and May. Boys may have been elected in Jan/Feb but have no real chance of completing their Ordeal in May of that year because they have no knowledge that they are candidates! The vast majority then get called out in June/July and then experience their Ordeal in September. For those who for whatever reason did not participate in September, the Spring Ordeal is available - less than one year since their call-out but more than one year from their election. In fact, if memory serves me correct - I received a letter in August (a few years ago) relating to me that I had one year to complete my Ordeal.

 

On a side note - for those who plan to attend the National Jamboree, our council is planning on having a calling out ceremony during the May shake-down campout. Those candidates then may participate in their Ordeal in late May and attend the Jamboree as full fledged members of OA. The main reason for this is because many of the boys who are going to attend the National Jamboree may not attend summer camp.

[blade1158]

acco40

it sounds like the problem is how your lodge runs elections, call outs and ordeals, not with the system itself. If candidates are elected in January or February and not called out until June thus having only one shot at the ordeal, that is a bit unreasonable. Maybe the leadership of the lodge needs to reevaluate how they implement the induction process so that it is more equitable.

 

My lodge, while far from perfect, does a pretty good job of elections, call outs and ordeals. Elections are held from late April through early June. Call outs and ordeals are held each week at summer camp. For those who didn't go through the ordeal at camp or who went out of council for camp, ordeals are also held at the fall conclave and at the spring conclave the following year. So, every candidate has three chances to complete the ordeal and be inducted. If they miss all three, they are no longer candidates and must be elected again.

[9muckraker7]

This question has come up in my lodge a couple times. Often there is a lack of communication between the Scoutmaster (or troop rep) and the newly elected ordeal candidates during the period after the election and before the ordeal; the candidate is never told when the sign-up nights for the ordeal are or when the actual ordeal is EVEN THOUGH this information is distributed to the scoutmasters upon the scouts' election. There is often about 50 elected scouts who seem to just completely forget about the OA because of this.

 

There have been several phone calls from disgruntled scoutmasters who request that we have another ordeal (because of the said circumstances) after the two ordeals the lodge has each year have already taken place. Such an event would not be as hard to plan, as elections would not be necessary. The problem in doing this is ensuring that all of those 50 scouts (who hadn't made it to the past two ordeals) would attend the ordeal, instead of just 1 or 2 who are actually interested. There is not much of a way of knowing whether the problem which had occured several months prior (i.e the scouts being uninformed about the ordeals) would be corrected.

 

Rather than trying to correct this problem by instituting an extra ordeal, the lodge executive committee has gotten around this problem by taking it upon themselves to establish close contact with the elected ordeal candidates themselves, rather than with the unreliable troop-reps or scoutmasters. Aside from the information they receive at their election, an informational letter is MAILED to the elected candidates, and a phone call is made. Therefore, any scout who does not attend either of the ordeals is just considered to have failed to prioritize his schedule and needs to wait until the next time he gets elected. This system of communication involves a great deal of work on the lodge's part, but even if it works just for one person, it is worth it.

[acco40]

But what about the time after the election but before the call-out? You don't wantthe lodge contacting elected individuals before their call-out.

[Proud Eagle]

You are correct that we don't want that.

 

However, it is what we had been doing for several years. Since the call out was between the two ordeals available, we had to notify the candidates in writing before the first ordeal.

 

This wasn't exactly great, so we have changed our ordeal schedule to have them both be after the summer camp call-outs.

 

The solution is found in the proper planning of the annual calendar, not in a kink in the rules. Perhaps to get through the current years the Lodge Executive Committee should vote to allow everyone to go through up to a year after notification (that special extension power it has). However, they should also commit to finding a better permanent solution at the same time.