OA election - 50% of troop

[Vicki]

Obviously, once again, there is variance from troop to troop. Ours tends to take the selection process pretty seriously. 2003 one of nine was selected. 2004 seven of fourteen were selected. My first-year-of-qualification son was not one of them - no argument with the process there since he had been a turkey a couple of times (I was there but intentionally spent most of my time staying out of my son's way, lifeguarding at the lake so I'm not even sure what he did, just know it happened).

 

Vicki

[KoreaScouter]

I'm with Bob White on this. Nobody can "buy their way in" to the OA. If the Lodge/Chapter Election Teams are doing their jobs (ours do a very good one here), the Scouts on election night know exactly who deserves to be elected and who doesn't, and it's inspiring to see them do the right thing. Our last two elections, we've had one elected out of 7-8 eligible.

 

Also, I make a cut as well. I'd have more than 7-8 eligible, but I line through some with the election team beforehand. Subjective? Absolutely, but based on personal observations and feedback they give me for the preceding months. Let's not equate rank advancement requirements with OA eligibility/"deservedness". I don't agree that what gets you to First Class should also be good enough to deem you "deserving" of OA election. It's an honor society; the bar ought to be higher.

 

In short, if the wrong lads are getting elected, the blame is in the mirror.

[acco40]

I'm still confused. "Let's not equate rank advancement requirements with OA eligibility or deservedness."

 

For rank you need to show Scout spirit. For unit leader approval: Unit Leader Approval. To become eligible for election, a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout must be registered with the Boy Scouts of America and have the approval of his unit leader prior to the election. The unit leader must certify his Scout spirit (i.e. his adherence to the Scout Oath and Law and active participation in unit activities). The unit leader must also certify that the nominee meets all specified requirements at the time of this annual election."

 

Now for Star rank the following requirements apply: 1. Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 4 months as a First Class Scout.

2. Demonstrate scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life.

 

So how can a unit leader say the Scout was active and demonstrated scout spirit for rank but not for the OA? Are not these standards the same?

[EagleInKY]

Good question acco. Not sure if this would be an example, but here goes...

 

What if a Scout is a great all-around guy, but hates to camp. He goes when he has to. He has the minimum requirement. He's great at everything else. He's just not the "outdoors type".

 

Now, since OA is an honor camping society, you would think there would be an issue here. Perhaps he wouldn't get elected, but that's not likely considering he's well-liked in every other way.

 

Not sure if that would be an example or not. I've got a scout that fits this description.

[SWScouter]

So how can a unit leader say the Scout was active and demonstrated scout spirit for rank but not for the OA? Are not these standards the same?

 

Here's one scenario, e.g., a boy is active in the troop, attends summer camp and lots of outings and shows lots of scout spirit and earns his first class rank. For sake of argument, say he earns the rank shortly after his troops OA election. Shortly after he earns first class, he basically stops attending outings and rarely attends troop meetings. When he does attend them, he tends to be more disruptive than helpful. When the next OA election comes around, he still meets the camping requirements, and of course, has reached first class. Should the SM submit his name to the OA ballot? I don't think so, but if his name is on the ballot, I would hope the troop would not deem him worthy of election.

 

SWScouter

[sst3rd]

Bob,

 

Again, we agree. After the Chapter Election Team explains the election procedure and qualifications, I make sure that all of our Scouts know that they can vote for as many as they want, or a select few, or one, or none.

 

 

SWScouter,

 

The last requirement for a Scout to qualify to go on an OA election ballot, is "Scoutmaster's Approval." This is where the Scout in your scenario would not "qualify." IMHO.........

 

sst3rd

[SWScouter]

The last requirement for a Scout to qualify to go on an OA election ballot, is "Scoutmaster's Approval." This is where the Scout in your scenario would not "qualify." IMHO.........

 

sst3rd,

 

I agree. I feel that a lot of the complaints voiced in this discussion are that SMs have added boys to the ballot that really shouldn't have been to begin with. Unfortunately, it also appears that in some places, the boys have elected unworthy scouts.

 

This seems to boil down to training issue with the SM, election teams, and scouts.

 

SWScouter

[ps56k]

I'll have to look up our Lodge/Chapter election form... if there is one.

I guess it all boils down to having these entries actually checkmarked by the SM, with the last one being the most up for grabs :

 

A. Be a registered Scout

B. Be a First Class Scout or higher

C. After registration with the unit, have at least 15 days and nights of camping including 6 consecutive days and nights of resident camping within 2 years of the election.

D. Have unit leader approval - The unit leader must certify the candidate's Scout Spirit, his adherence to the Scout Oath and Law, and participation in unit activities.

 

[WWBPD]

Somewhat related question,

 

Scout has been nominated to OA by scoutmaster for each of the past four years. Scout has been elected for OA by troop in each of the past four years. Scout has not participated in an Ordeal in any year - does not appear to have any interest in OA. Is SM within his authority to not nominate scout for a fifth year even though other tests are met? Suppose the troop has adopted a policy to that effect that is communicated to all beforehand?

 

We have a policy to this effect in order to provide some motivation for an elected scout to complete his Ordeal. Are we wrong?

[EagleInKY]

WWBPD (love the moniker, by the way) - I believe it boils down to answering the question "what is the reason for the boy not participating in the ordeal?" Is it a lack of Scout Spirit? Maybe or maybe not. Perhaps the ordeal timing always conflicts with a troop activity, and he'd rather serve the troop. Perhaps it conflicts with band, church or family activities. Or, maybe the scout prefers to be active at the troop level and doesn't have a desire to be part of the OA right now. Maybe he's afraid because he's heard horror stories of past ordeals.

 

The point is that there are many reasons why a scout may choose not to participate. If the scout is living by the oath & law, then I believe the SM has to put his name on the list. Let the troop decide whether he deserves another shot at it.

[Proud Eagle]

I would want to know why the Scout hasn't gone to the Ordeal.

 

After I knew the answer to that, I would be able to decide if I should allow him to be elected again.

 

It could be he doesn't want to be in OA. In that case, he may even want to be left off the ballot.

 

On the other hand, he may want to do it, but have had other commitments the last couple of times.

 

Perhaps he thought he had something more fun he could do those weekend.

 

 

I decided to go to my Ordeal instead of attending the freshman dance at my junior high. Since it was a junior high, the freshman were the oldest in the school, and it was sort of a big thing. I made a choice, and I am happy with the results, even 5 years later. We all make choices. Sometimes we choose Scouting, sometimes we choose something else. Sometimes we make commitments before we know of other opportunities, and in those cases, I think it is the trustworthy thing to honor those commitments.

[KoreaScouter]

Some forum members seem to wonder how a SM can be subjective regarding the "unit leader approval" for a potential OA election candidate. After all, if the lad showed sufficient Scout Spirit and participation for advancement, why isn't it good enough for OA election?

 

Well, for me, it's simple, and then again, it isn't (please excuse the Kerry-esque language -- it should make sense in a minute).

 

First, the simple part. I don't rubber-stamp anything. I have to believe those old coots in Irving know what they're doing. If the requirements for advancement were by themselves sufficient for OA election, there wouldn't be a unit-leader-approval requirement. The fact that there is tells me something, and I take it seriously. OA is an honor society; if the bar isn't set higher than it is for First Class advancement, then we're just passing out candy.

 

Now, the not-so-simple part. It's a subjective call, as are many that I make. I don't have a canned checklist, or a lock-step formula. I use my judgment and training, squint, hold my mouth a certain way, chat with my ASMs, get the other Arrowmen's input, look through my own OA Handbook before a Troop election, take a breath, and make the call.

 

I once lined through a Scout's name on the candidate list because I found out he tried to bribe the first-year Scouts to vote for him, assuming he'd be up for election based on rank and camping nights. He either forgot or didn't know that I bat last.

 

Our units don't need figureheads who only read a rule book and look good in a uniform (although I do, if I do say so myself) -- trained monkeys could do that...careful, I know what you're thinking!

 

KS

[SR540Beaver]

Sorry KS, you asked for it! I have this image of you and your ASM's sitting on a branch picking fleas and grooming each other. Have a good thansgiving and don't eat too many fleas.

[KoreaScouter]

Hey, you've seen us at campouts! Anyway, good grooming is important, right?

 

KS

[OldGreyEagle]

SO while this is off topic, it fits in the grooming line:

 

So I had been with the troop for about a year and we were on a WhiteWater Weekend. The outfitter had a huge campground and routinely ran "scout" weekends, well, it was a scout week end and that included Girl Scouts as well. So, the troop had girl scout units on either side of it. Sunday morning arrives, and as I climb out of my tent I see the girls in one site lining up to brush their teeth and are combing their hair. The other site is boiling water and mixing it with cooler water and the girls are washing their hair. The scouts meanwhile have their dirty grubby faces buried in cereal bowls. I walked up to one of the tables and commented on how the girls were practicing hygiene and about how in a year I had never seem a scout to anything close to that or even had I seen a comb. One scout answered in between shoveling cereal in his mouth, "we dont do that stuff, we dont have to, we are men"