OA requirement question

[yarrow]

We have a boy, our SMs boy,who has been to one summer camp in that last 2 years and a few campouts. He also went to Canoebase and helped out as a CIT all summer at our local boy scout camp. Doesn't that fit the camping requirements??

 

The Advancement chair is not sure. Seems to me he does qualify. My boy who is in OA is not sure and our elections chief for our chapter is in the hospital and I do not wish to bother him or his family.

[VentureScoutNY]

I believe...again...I believe, that it is required that a scout have at least one week consecutive camping.

[Eamonn]

Me thinks that the stint as a CIT last summer covers it.

Eamonn

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Don't quote me but I think it's at least 1 week of consecutive camping but a total of 15 or 20 nights total only 1 week of that consecutive camping counts

[eisely]

As it has been explained to me, the intent of the OA "nights camping" requirement is to encourage frequent camping. While there is a requirement for one "long term" camp during the 24 months preceding the election, you can't simply add two long term camps of six nights each to get to twelve nights. The requirement is for one long term camp, with the balance made up in a series of events or outings of short term camps. Short term is not defined.

 

Having said that, it does not seem reasonable to deny credit for part of a long term camp to meet the short term camp requirement. Suppose for example that a First Class Scout went to two summer camps of six nights each during the preceding 24 months. Suppose further that the scout attended a variety of short term (mostly weekend) events during the 24 months that added up to only seven nights. Since we get to count only one of the long term camps for long term camping purposes, we add six plus seven to get to thirteen, not enough nights. Does it make sense to ignore the other long term camp altogether? I concluded that it did not, and discussed this with my lodge advisor. What I have been doing for any otherwise eligible scout who had met the long term requirement, is counting part of other long term events, be it another six night session at summer camp or an extended trek. However, I count only three of those nights per event. In my example I would add one long term camp (six nights), seven nights of short term camps, and three nights of the other long term camp to allow credit for sixteen nights.

 

Mind you, this approach has no official standing with OA national that I know of. But equity seemed to demand that some consideration be given to at least some of those nights that would otherwise be disregarded completely.

 

Another question that needs to be considered is what is camping? The summer camp that our troop attends does not use tents, but has a variety of cabins and open structures for sleeping. I count those nights. If I did not count those nights, we would never elect anybody.

 

With that exception, I consider a "night camping" to be a night under the stars or under canvas. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, you can spend a night as an organized group on the aircraft carrier "Hornet" which is permanently berthed in San Leandro. A night spent in a dormitory, motel, or on the Hornet does not count. Here again, I am not aware of any official guidance, but that is what I do.

 

I strongly suggest you seek the advice of your local OA hierarchy as to how these things should be considered. Hope this helps.

[Fat Old Guy]

eisley, methinks that you are not following the spirit nor the intent of the rule by allowing part of a second week of summer camp.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

[KA6BSA]

Although eisely mentioned it don't forget that the Scout must be First Class rank. And he must have the approval of the Scoutmaster (who will consider any disciplinary issues) to be a candidate in the OA election. OA is not just there to promote camping it is also the honor society of BSA and if a boy has not consistently behaved according to the Scout Law and Oath, shown "Scout Spirit" and leadership in his patrol or troop then maybe he is not ready for OA.

 

Regarding the camping requirement in our Lodge we count up the nights, strictly allowing only one long term camp (for 5 of the nights) in the total of at least 15. Our troop has in its bylaws the goal of providing the annual opportunity of 5 or 6 nights at summer camp (actually we have two different summer camps each year and some Scouts attend both), ten weekend campouts, plus District Camporee. Our PLC has gone further to try for the annual goal of planning at least a total of 40 nights of troop camping including the High Adventure (age 14) outings. Most Scouts with even moderate participation easily get many more than 20 nights in their first 2 years of Scouting. My troop also has Camping Merit Badge (20 nights) as part of the requirements for Instructor or Troop Guide rather than a minimum age limit. My son (an Eagle and age 16) has a total of 139 nights of BSA camping in the last 5 years and I personally have 89 nights as a Scouter in a tent for the same time period.

 

So we do not feel the need to make arbitrary judgements like "A second summer camp counts for 3 nights." The total is either 15 by the OA rules or it isn't. With good troop outdoor program planning the boys have better advancement opportunity and also for joining OA. In my troop this year of 38 boys there are 14 of them who qualify for the OA election.(This message has been edited by KA6BSA)

[ScouterPaul]

The following comes directly from www.oa-bsa.org:

 

"Other than defining the length of time needed for a camping activity to be considered a long-term camp*, the National Order of the Arrow Committee leaves the interpretation of the camping requirement to the unit leader.

 

* A "long-term camp" is one consisting of at least six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping. A "short-term camp" is anything less than that."

 

The requirements are:

1. Must be registered

2. Must be First Class

3. Must have 15 days and nights camping during the previous 2 years prior to his election. The 15 days and nights must include six consecutive days (including five nights) of long-term camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps.

 

Hope this helps.

[eisely]

ScouterPaul's post makes the point that much is left to the unit in determining eligibility within the rules. In our unit, more than summer camp is at issue. We offer significant outings (plural) during the summer besides resident summer camp, that typically involve 5 to 6 nights of camping. Are we not to count even a portion of these? You may consider my approach to be exploiting a loophole, or a reasonable treatment of other long term events. I don't think we are violating either the intent or the spirit. You are free to disagree.

[Proud Eagle]

"The youth must have experienced fifteen days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The fifteen days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps."

 

Based on this you may count 6 days/5 nights of summer camp. However you may not count any of the CIT or Canoebase experience, since those would be additional long term camping experiences. Therefore he would need at least 9 days/10 nights of short term Boy Scout camping experience within the last 2 years.

 

http://www.oa-bsa.org/misc/basics/

Eligibility

 

Scouts are elected to the Order by their fellow unit members, following approval by the Scoutmaster or Varsity team Coach. To become a member, a youth must be a registered member of a Boy Scout troop or Varsity Scout team and hold First Class rank. The youth must have experienced fifteen days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The fifteen days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps.

 

Adult selection is based on their ability to perform the necessary functions to help the Order fulfill its purpose, and is not for recognition. Selected adult Scouters must be an asset to the Order because of demonstrated abilities, and provide a positive role model for the youth members of the lodge.

 

"The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps."

 

You may not count any portion of other long term camps other than the one provided for. It doesn't matter if you troop takes 5 long term trips per year, you may only count one towards the 15 days /15 nights requirement.

 

Therefore the camping requirement breakes down into two sub-requirements:

1. 6 consecutive days and 5 nights of redient camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America

2. 9 days/10 nights of short term Boy Scout camping

 

 

The detailed, complete, and official answer to all this can be found in the:

 

Order of the Arrow Guide for Officers and Advisors

2002 edition

#34997B

 

under, Membership Requirements (page 20 & 21)

 

The requirements listed there are the ONLY complete and official printing of the OA membership requirements that I know of.

 

If anyone wants anything from that I will be glad to provide information here. There are also relavant sections on Election Procedures and Unit Elections. Further, more can be found on unit elections in the Guide to Inductions.(This message has been edited by Proud Eagle)

[scoutldr]

Adult selection is based on their ability to perform the necessary functions to help the Order fulfill its purpose, and is not for recognition. Selected adult Scouters must be an asset to the Order because of demonstrated abilities, and provide a positive role model for the youth members of the lodge.

This is the first time I have read this carefully.  So should there not be a distinction between adults who were ELECTED as youths (i.e., "honor society"), and those SELECTED as adults because we need adult supervision and transportation to OA events?  I think the critieria should be the same...because that's the impression most people are under.  We are all "brothers".  (Even the girls)

[eisely]

Regarding adult selection:

 

I don't recall seeing the specific paragraph that scoutldr focuses on, but I had always understood that adults were to be "selected" not so much on the basis of past service, but on the basis of the expectation of future service to scouting in general, not just the OA. Adults must still meet the nights camping requirement the same as youth.

[Proud Eagle]

There is nearly a page in the Guide for Officers and Advisors on adult membership qualifications (page 21). I am not going to retype that here, but I will summarize as best I can.

 

Adults and candidates for adult membership are those members of the BSA 21 year of age or older.

 

Individuals shall be selected as candidates based on the following:

 

1. Adult leaders in units:

 

Units that elect at least one youth candidate may recommend an adult candidate.

The unit committee may recommend one adult to the lodge adult selection committee based on every 50 registered, active youth members, or fractions thereof.

The lodge adult selection committee consists of the lodge advisor, the lodge staff advisor, and the chairman of the council committee on which the lodge advisor serves (normally camping or boy scout committee).

 

"Recommendations of the adult selection committee, with the approval of the Scout executive, ..., will be candidates for induction, provided the following conditions are fulfilled:

* Selection of adults is based on the ability to perform the necessary functions to help the Order fulfill its purpose, and not for recognition of service, including current or prior achievement and positions.

* The individiual will be an asset to teh Order because of demonstrated abilities to fulfill the purpose of the Order.

* The camping requirements set forth for youth members are fulfilled.

* The adult leader's membership will provide a positive example for the growth and development of the youth members of the lodge."

 

2. Adult leaders in council and district positions:

 

"The lodge advisor, district chairman, council president, or members of the professional staff may recommend adults to the lodge adult selection committee.

Recommendations of the adult selection committee, with the approval of the Scout executive, ..., will become candidates for induction. All requirements set forth for adult leaders in units must be fulfilled, with the exception of the camping requirements, which may be waived at the discretion of the lodge adviser and Scout executive."

 

"Adults may be recommended for membership only one time per year as either unit Scouters or district/council Scouters, but not as both. How they are recommended depends on where they maintain their primary registration."

 

"Because the Order of the Arrow is principally a youth organization, unit, district, and council Scouters are not elected to membership as a recognition. Election into the Order should take place only when the adult's job in Boy Scouting or Varsity Scouting will make Order of the Arrow membership more meaningful in the lives of the youth membership."

[eisely]

In light of my previous post and Proud Eagle's post, it is necessary to further clarify adult requirements. It is my understanding that adults nominated by units for OA have to meet the nights camping requirement the same as youth. Adult volunteers functioning at the district or council level who are considered for nomination to OA do NOT have to meet the nights camping requirement.

 

Perhaps Proud Eagle may have some additional information on that narrow question.