OA Help...

[NWScouter]

It is not so much that we should be giving the Venture Crew the ability to elect OA candidates but to restore it to them. That level of the Scouting program could when it was called Exploring and then when all but a few career based post were changed into crews they lost that right.

 

[Eamonn]

Could be that I'm seeing something that isn't there? But wojuawe you seem a little upset.

I think the question "What is a Venture Scout was in reference to the fact that Venturers are not called Scouts.

As for the District back-door option, we are in agreement. I have seen District Committee members want to bring others that serve on the District level into the OA as some sort of award or honor, we agree that this is not right.

I fail to see why a Venturer has any more commitment to serving on camp staff , then any other camp staff person.

I hope that our Scout Exec. Doesn't see that you have camp staffers that are willing to work for $60 or $100.00 a week. He will be paying you a visit to recruit them.

I am aware that many of those who do serve on camp staff do so because they love Scouting and the program, however there are a lot of us that love Scouting and the program and due to obligations at home and at work we can't spend the summer doing what we think is the best job in the world and the most fun, many of us would do it for no pay if we could afford it. Camp staff and camp staffers are on the whole very nice people, but please don't set them up as something more then what they are.

Eamonn.

[wojauwe]

Eamonn

I don't think you get it.The point is that Venture scouts(and yes they are called scouts)as with other boy scouts are serving the scout program.I'm not trying to set up all Venture scouts as something special there is just as big a mix of slackers and hard workers as in any other part of scouting (or the world in general).

I dissagree with you about not setting camp staff up as something special.Yea there are slackers as there are every where.But the people I was trying to point out are ones who go above and beyond their duties for scouting.

I don't know how involved you have been in staffing but both of my sons have been camp staff for several years and the work that they do is far above what a camper sees.Yes you see the nice enthusiastic guy.But you don't see the late night staff meetings or the work that goes into making everything look so easy.

There is staff week and several other optional service days throughout the year

fixing broken facilities,clearing trails and setting up the tents and program areas.

 

[wojauwe]

Eamonn

I don't think you get it.The point is that Venture scouts(and yes they are called scouts)as with other boy scouts are serving the scout program.I'm not trying to set up all Venture scouts as something special there is just as big a mix of slackers and hard workers as in any other part of scouting (or the world in general).

I dissagree with you about not setting camp staff up as something special.Yea there are slackers as there are every where.But the people I was trying to point out are ones who go above and beyond their duties for scouting.

I don't know how involved you have been in staffing but both of my sons have been camp staff for several years and the work that they do is far above what a camper sees.Yes you see the nice enthusiastic guy.But you don't see the late night staff meetings or the work that goes into making everything look so easy.

There is staff week and several other optional service days throughout the year

fixing broken facilities,clearing trails and setting up the tents and program areas.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"Venture scouts(and yes they are called scouts)"

 

Really, the last time that I checked, they were called Venturers.

[Fat Old Guy]

" That level of the Scouting program could when it was called Exploring and then when all but a few career based post were changed into crews they lost that right."

 

I think that it went away in the early '70s when girls joined Exploring.

[wojauwe]

FOG,

you have a great knack for focusing on the nitpicky trivia I hear Venture Scout as often as I hear Venturer used.My sons are both involved in the Venture program ,OA and Boy scouts .My oldest was awarded the Venture leadership award(the Venturing equivelent of the Silver Beaver,but Youth can receive it).He also has the Founders Award, the OA's highest council award.His Venture crew is on the Wood Badge training staff for the council.

My youngest is the Council cabinet's Administrative Vice President.

Could you tell me what knowledge you have of The Venture program other than static history and vaque concept of terminology?

I think this will be my last entry responding to comments on terminology or the proper way to wear a patch.To me these items are way down on the list of importance.In many areas the Scouting program is struggleing to grow or even maintain membership.

It seems ludicrous for us to isolate a program that is beggining to draw older youth back into scouting.The principles promoted by the Venture program are the same as scouting.If you have a philosphical problem with that fine but I could care less what you call it.In our council the Venture program is the only one that is experiancing healthy growth.

[wojauwe]

Sorry I mistated something.The last I heard Venture is the fastest growing program in the BSA.You'd never know it the way they are treated by the rest of scouting.

[Fat Old Guy]

"I hear Venture Scout as often as I hear Venturer used."

 

So? I see people write "there" as a possive adjective very often but that doesn't make it right. Does it? There are right terms to use and it behooves you to use the right terms.

 

"My oldest was awarded . . . blah, blah, blah. . ."

 

What's that have to do with you not knowing the right terminology?

 

"Could you tell me what knowledge you have of The Venture program other than static history and vaque concept of terminology?"

 

What's that have to do with your desperate need to change OA and obstinate need to use the wrong terminology?

[wojauwe]

Eamonn,

In response to your message about scout pay.Our council has some of the lowest pay you'll find anywhere.Most of our budget goes to maintaining some of the most amazing scout properties you'll ever see. Cascade Pacific Council is blessed with some great camps,every thing from cliffs at the Edge of the Pacific Ocean to

5000 feet up in the Cascade mountains on the Edge of the Jefferson Wilderness area.

My oldest son has been approached from out of region and offered 3 times what he gets.But like I said our staffers work for the love of it.

 

[wojauwe]

FOG,

My point was more that I may get my terminology wrong.But I'm in the middle of what is actually going on I live with youth who are working on the leading edge of a vibrant growing program.I also spend the bulk of my time supporting and working within the boundaries of the program that has my heart .The OA. I would like to see the 2 share in each others strengths.

The odds are I will miss the details on patches or terminology.

My focus lies in helping to support the youth leadership in my Chapter and Lodge,

and I think I'm doing a pretty good job.Our chapter has put on merit badge workshops for the District,plans and runs a District Camporee serving 800 to a 1000 scouts and scouters.We provide the bulk of our lodge's ceremonies teams from

Pre ordeal to Vigil.Our teams performed 50 WEBELOS crossover Ceremonies this year.

During that time we also ran Unit elections for around 50 units.We also are well represented on the Staffs of all Lodge events and Section Conclave.My greatest sin is that I submitted a District nomination for a Woman who has been working in our kitchen for OA ordeals for more years than I have been in scouting,and I got district and Lodge aproval for this.

I need to apologise to my son for flaunting his awards(he would not aprove)I just wanted to point out that I'm involved with people who are deeply involved in the programs I am talking about.Sorry if I was insulting to you.These forums are probably not something that I'm good for.I stumbled on this looking for new training information for my chapter leaders planning retreat and JLT.

I saw crewgirl's entry and could relate to the problem.I forgot to check the timeline before I chimed in.It apears she's long gone.

I'm sorry if I've spoiled your fun.

[wojauwe]

FOG,

I think I should apologise for the terminology stuff.You are right about the Venturer usage.I guess I'm just frustrated that this is the kind of thing that has become the bulk of feed back.there has been very little if any disscussion

of what I thought was the meat of the subject.

[Fat Old Guy]

wojauwe,

 

I wasn't insulted by your recitation of your son's honors. They just have as much to do with the discussion as my daughter's grade in English.

 

The crux of the issue is that I don't see a need for a change. Many others don's see a need for a change. Let Venturing form their own organization.

 

As for details, I have never understood why people think that you should ignore details in pursuit of "the big picture." The big picture is made up of details. Fuzzy thinking and terminology leads to confusion which results in ships running aground or girls thinking that they were "Boy Scouts" when they were really Explorers.

 

 

It is just as easy to put the patches in the right places as it is to put them in the wrong places. If you put the patches on your shirt properly and use correct terminology, will your youth not be as well served?

[wojauwe]

 

well we definitely are going to always dissagree.I see Venture as an extension of the boy scout program deserving to be included in the OA's Honor society .

 

It seems to me you see it as something seperate and want to keep it so.

 

I'm probably in the minority,but it's how I feel.

 

Too tell you the truth I feel like we have been involved in 2 completely different disscussions.The answers you gave to me seemed to be totally irelevent to what I was talking about,and obviously you saw my side the same way.

 

Oh by the way I didn't feel I was insulting you by reciting sons honors.the apology was to him because he doesn't flaunt these things.I was just giving the credentials of one of the people I've had long conversations about what the Venture and OA youth leaders are talking about in our council.

 

Sorry I'm apparently not a very clear communicator.

 

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"I see Venture as an extension of the boy scout program"

 

You might call it an adjunct to the Boy Scout program but not an extension. How is a Venture Crew that does Renaissance re-enacting an extension of Boy Scouting.

 

Venturing is a different program. That's neither good nor bad, that's just what it is.

 

Let's look at the big kettle of fish that you'll stir up if you'd open OA to Venturing. What happens when Crews that don't camp (see above) complain that the rules are biased against them. After all, camping is an integral part of Boy Scout but not Venturing. Will you then change the nomination rules and remove camping. Wait! Now people who don't camp will complain about the ordeal. So the ordeal will change. Soon the organization will be nothing but a shell of its former self.