OA Help...

[buffalo2]

To your point OGE - Check out the Venturing Corps of Discovery at:

http://members.aol.com/VentureCOD/index.html

Looks like some folks working to develop something similar to OA and NicOsay that would be Venturing-specific. Don't know how current this might be but worth checking out.

And remember that you don't need lots of recognition to have a service organization...

[CrewGirl1024]

Thank you. I think I understand now!

 

I still have alot of questions, but you all helped me get down to the basics!

 

I just have to wait a little while longer before I can get in to OA! I think I can handle that!

[Big_Baloo]

Thanks a lot

[scouting-nerd]

Okay, I've served as an elangomat and I have had cub Scouters come through the Ordeal. Would this be because they are involved in someway with a Boy Scout troop or what? However, in Venturing males can wear the lodge flap as long as it's not on the Sea Scout Uniform, because they would have been elected as a youth Boy Scout.

[NWScouter]

Adults outside of Boy Scout and Varsity units can be nominatied by the Scout Executive and Lodge Advisor. That how you may see Cub, District, and Council Scouters going through their Ordeal.

[wojauwe]

There are many people who have duel registrations.I'm an OA chapter Advisor and

deal with unique election and selection situations.With adults There are more options we can use.The real impediment to Venture Female youths is that to be elected you need to have achieved first Class.It doesn't allow for the fact that

Venturing ranks require First Class skills and above.It's more a matter of wording.

Once the potential candidate reaches 21,then we have more leeway.The focus is more on whether the person will be an asset to the order.Adults are selcted by either a troop or Varsity team.They can only be selected if a youth in their unit

is elected.

There is the option of selecting them as a district selection.I use this at least once each year and it is pretty much up to me.I need to convince at least one of the District key 3 that the person is a good choice.

As to Venture Female over 18 becoming an ASM in a troop,there is a new problem.

In the troop 18 is considered adult.In the OA you are a youth until 21,same as Venture.This creates a quandry ,the 18 to 20 year old needs to be elected as a youth and is subject to the First class requirement.All youth elections are done by youth and us Adults can not override them or wave any of the requirements.

There are many of us who are frustrated by this.The national leadership tends to

lean towards the conservative side.I'm not sure the policy makers know how to relate to Ventureing.

My oldest son is very active at council level in both Venturing and OA and the disscussion about bringing Venture program into the fold is ongoing.It may be a slow process but if we keep talking about it maybe we can drag the Scouting Executives into the 21st. century and grant Venturing full membership in the scouting community.

Yours in Service,

Regi

 

 

[acco40]

"All youth elections are done by youth and us Adults can not override them or wave any of the requirements.

There are many of us who are frustrated by this."

 

I believe adults (SMs) have the authority to okay the list of youth running for the OA. For example, a youth may be first class and have spent the requisite number of nights camping (and while doing so was disruptive, setting off firecrackers, shirk all of his duties, etc.). However, if the boy is "on the ballot" and receives the proepr number of votes (majority) I don't believe the SM can veto the results.

[wojauwe]

Actually scoutmaster can not veto election results.

Scoutmaster aproval is one of the requirements for a person to be on the ballot.So I guess we do have some input but it's best that we not be to free with this veto.Mostly it's used if the SM feels that the possible candidate is too immature to handle the ordeal.It's rarely used,I saw 12 year olds on my candidate

list and I doubt I will see any of them at a chapter or lodge event or meeting.

(different rant)

The point I was trying to make was in relation to the difficulty the female Venture youth would have getting into the OA.There is some flexability with adult selection ie.we can waive the first class requirement but I can't use this with

youth.I'm approaching this from the point of view of an advisor and I as an advisor Have no power in youth elections outside of the youth not being first class or have a current scout registration or have the 15 days camping requirements.

[wojauwe]

I feel the need to clarify something.Acco40's response took a couple of lines out of context from the entry he was responding to.Thus the impression is that

many of us are not happy with the fact that the youth have control of youth elections.Not so at all.

My frustraton had more to do with tweener youth (18 to 20) who may have entered scouts as Venture scouts,they can go to a troop where they are considered adults,

become ASM's yet they are not able to be selected into the OA as adults,because in the eye of the OA,they are youth until 21.This means they must of earned First class which is not the name of any rank in Venture but if they come to a troop at 18 they are considered an adult by troop and unable to earn rank.

The overall scouting program needs to find a way to embrace the Venture program.

There are more and more crews who are high adventure crews who fulfill the camping requirements and their ranks are more challenging than First Class.

I'm encountering Venturers who have come to scouting in their mid teens without

taking the boy scout path.Some of them have negative feelings towards the OA because they are excluded unfairly from the program.I hate to see this growing

program be cut off from the rest of us.The Venture program when done right is very close to the OA they both are strongly youth run and stay youth till 21.

As a chapter advisor I feel that I'm being cheated out of good youth leaders for our program.

I feel strongly that we need to embrace the program.

[Fat Old Guy]

Why the mad desire to open the OA to Venturers? Why does everything that is special to anyone need to be opened up to include everyone? Why can't people just accept the fact that they can't join an organization.

 

 

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"There is the option of selecting them as a district selection.I use this at least once each year and it is pretty much up to me.I need to convince at least one of the District key 3 that the person is a good choice."

 

This sounds like you are dancing around the rules.

 

I looked at the requirements as explained in the "Support Pak" www.oa-bsa.org/programs/ttr/ttrpak/A1-Unit-elections.pdf

 

and it looks as though you should only nominate someone as "district selection" if their primary registration is at the district level.

[wojauwe]

 

The ones that I use the district option for are all very active at the District level.One a year is not such a big deal in a chapter of 300 in a Lodge of 2000.

 

The desire to see the inclusion of Venture stems from the fact that this is a valid Boyscout program serving the same age group as the OA and with very much the same structure.

 

If your concerned about OA being opened up too much for it to feel special.You might want to look at the tendancy of Boy Scout troops to select every Youth who reaches first class.

 

These Venture scouts that we are excluding are a large part of our boy scout camp staff.So they are doing the work of the OA. What's the big deal about including them officialy?

[Fat Old Guy]

"The ones that I use the district option for are all very active at the District level."

 

From what you said, their primary registration isn't at the District level, so you are dancing around the rules.

 

"The desire to see the inclusion of Venture stems from the fact that this is a valid Boyscout program serving the same age group as the OA and with very much the same structure."

 

So?

 

"You might want to look at the tendancy of Boy Scout troops to select every Youth who reaches first class."

 

I haven't seen tha that in my troop and that would be a problem with the implementation and not the program.

 

"These Venture scouts"

 

What's a "Venture scout"?

 

"that we are excluding are a large part of our boy scout camp staff.So they are doing the work of the OA. What's the big deal about including them officialy?"

 

How does being on camp staff relate to OA?

[Eamonn]

I for one am happy with leaving the OA with the Boy Scouts.

I really dislike it when people try to use the District as a back-door to gain membership.

While I know that it isn't a prerequisite I really like seeing the Boy Scouts who are in camp with their troops being called out or tapped out in front of the other troop members.

We do have female members in our Lodge, some are very active and do a great job serving the Lodge.

Eamonn

[wojauwe]

I'm new to this medium for communicating.This may not work for communicating anything complex.

 

But I think there are some missunderstandings going on.

 

One concept I want clear OA is not an award it is a service organization and if I were to use the district "backdoor" to get an adult in it's not to honor them but to bring a valuable asset into the organization.My district units elected

125 new candidates this year following all the exact regulations.70% of these will make it to one of our lodge's 6 ordeals.Maybe 10 of them will be active in the Chapter or Lodge.Of the 4 people in my 5 years as chapter advisor who are my

District selections 1 has not stepped up in the OA but that's because of District and Council commitments.Sorry 2,health concerns took one out of the mix.

 

As to the ease of selection at the troop level,that's a troop thing.National took away the youth number restrictions several years ago.You are going to find

different philosophies from troop to troop.The youth in my troop take it very seriously we tend to elect 1 a year. Out of a 40 member troop we have 9 OA members

1 new ordeal member 4 brotherhood 4 vigil of which 2 are recipiants of the Founders award.

 

What is Venture? It is a BSA organization for youth 14 thru 20,it is coed,as with explorers they often have specific focuses.The majority of Venture units

are faith focused,being essentially one of the age group breakdowns for the LDS

System(they are not coed in the LDS).

The program is still trying to define itself.There are more and more high adventure focused crews who are catching some of the older youth who would otherwise leave the scouting program for their troops lack of ability to serve their needs.It's very possible that in your area there is not a very well developed Venture program.

My oldest son ( an Eagle scout,Lodge officer,Vigil with Founders award etc.)

is the Youth Venture chair for a council wide week long high adventure race in the Oregon High Desert .He's been planning this for 3 years most of the problems coming with the fact that council didn't understand Venture program and were afraid to allow him to promote it.This year they let it go and in less than a month all 20 slots for teams of 4 were filled with a long waiting list including people as far away as Virginia.

Venture emphasizes Youth run with adult advisors(sound familiar?)

 

WHAT DOES BEING CAMP STAFF HAVE TO DO WITH OA?!SERVICE!!

Check out the considerations for Vigil selection one of those is service to scout camps.The Venture scouts I know on Camp staff are the most commited people I know,

they go to every camp work day they can get to(not required for their job)

If you want to bring up that they get paid for staffing,think about a 16 to 20 year old getting paid $60 to $100 a week to work 16 to 18 hour days.It's not the money.These people love the camps and are dedicated to giving our boys a quality

scouting experiance.

 

Don't worry there's not a chance that National will include Venture in the OA

mix.The organization is very conservative at the top and the youth protection logistics of the coed aspect scare the heck out of them.(understandably)

 

Yours in Brotherhood,

Quilwelensitchewagan Wajauwe